Free Chinese Lesson - Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in

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roddy -

Very good. Probably worth pointing out that this isn't compulsory - it's a guide, but if anyone
wants to just type up stuff in any format that's still good - we can get one of our Wiki Editors
to tidy it up later.










muyongshi -

Obviously we can't force people to do it but it sure helps if things look uniform...

But those of us who are anal about it can just tidy up as it bugs us!

(I know I need )










gato -

You can use [noparse][/noparse] to force the forum software to show the vbCode.

By the way, there are more extensive Wiki formatting codes available that we might consider using
at some point. See NuWiki Syntax Guide for how to add table of content and section links to your
article.










muyongshi -

I knew there was a way but it has been 2 years since I last actively did html encoding. Need to
refresh myself!

If we get to the point where we need them we can definitely use them...my main concern is
uniformity and just the readability of it.










gato -

Oh, if you use the [h1], [h2], ..., [h7] heading formatting code, a table of content is
automatically created once you have more than 4 headings. The NuWiki syntax guide has more details.

See the new Dictionaries article using the heading codes.

Want to revise the formatting guide to take account of this?










roddy -

Yep, that's what I did here. The style on that box might need tweaking though . . .










muyongshi -

But they look so ugly! We need to start on a lower heading number then because starting with h1 is
just to large. h2 is even pushing it!










roddy -

Hit edit on the article I did above and see how that works, using the equals sign to format
headings. To be honest I can't remember how I did it, but it seems to have auto-generated the
content box ok.










muyongshi -

That's what I'm doing now and just playing around with it now. If the largest we use is h2 then it
will be fine I think (h2 directly corresponds to ==) but now the problem is that it puts huge gaps
in between the headings unless you put them on the same line which that just creates hassle. I
guess it will have to do as it is the most convenient way to create these tables...












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Chinese Mandarin - Historical Vietnamese Phonology? / Japanese pre-War newspaper articles? -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Historical Vietnamese Phonology? / Japanese pre-War newspaper articles?
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Xi'Er Dun -

Are there any online sources with information of Historical Vietnamese Phonology, ie. there must
have been proto-Vietnamese/archaic-Vietnamese/old-Vietnamese,/Ancient Vietnamese/Middle Vietnamese
and pre-Modern Vietnamese languages surely.
One book on Chinese Linguistics, mentions the Vietnamese Language in a chapter about
Sino-Vietnamese borrowings, and states that the Vietnamese Language had initial consonant
combinations like Thai as late as the arrival of the first Jesuits in the 1500's, and so suggests
that the Vietnamese Language is not Austro-Asiatic after all but closer to Thai, Hmong, Miao and
other Hill Tribe languages. If Alexandre de Rhodes designed the first orthography for Quốc
Ngữ to write Vietnamese, then wouldn't the writing system show some reference to historical
Vietnamese pronunciation, unless these have been updated since in orthographic reforms?
This is still all in debate of course.

Something unrelated to the topic, but want to get help with from this forum, I have tried
searching the internet for literally hours looking for Historical Japanese Newspaper Articles,
those from the pre-war eras like the Meiji 明治, Taishō 太正 and Shōwa 昭和 up until 1945.
So I am looking for an online archive collection of *scanned* newspaper articles by Japanese
newspapers dating from 1868 at the very earliest up until strictly 1945 at the latest. I
particularly request scanned articles a I have found the electronic ones, if they are from
historical publications use some Kanji 漢字 that are not included JIS or EUC charatcer sets and
so show code glitches where ther are meant to be, so I think directly scanned publications are the
way to go. like to read Japanese publications that present pre-War Kanji 漢字usage like the
Kyūjitai 舊字體 [like 國　for 国, 讀　for 読, etc.] and pre-War Kana 仮名 orthography
Rekishi Teki Kana Zukai 歴史仮名圖解 [like くわう　for こう, ゑぞ　for えぞ,
etc.].

I know that hardly anyone relies to any of my other posts for reasons I can imagine, but if
someone can link me through to sources with information that I would like on the two major topics
of this post, then that would be great.

希爾頓從

感恩伴
cảm ơn bạn

如何も有り難う御座い升



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furyou_gaijin -



Quote:

Something unrelated to the topic, but want to get help with from this forum, I have tried
searching the internet for literally hours looking for Historical Japanese Newspaper Articles,
those from the pre-war eras like the Meiji 明治, Taishō 太正 and Shōwa 昭和 up until 1945.
So I am looking for an online archive collection of *scanned* newspaper articles by Japanese
newspapers dating from 1868 at the very earliest up until strictly 1945 at the latest.

Are you looking for something like this:

http://www.lib.kobe-u.ac.jp/directory/sinbun/

or like this:

http://www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/...=&note=&image=

I must have misunderstood your original request because these are some results of a 2 sec Google
search, as opposed to 'literally hours'... It surely can't be that simple?!

I must admit that I have followed your earlier posts with polite amusement... The breadth of your
interests is truly astonishing. Care to elaborate on the extent to which you have mastered the
modern spoken Japanese and Chinese?










skylee -



Quote:

Taishō 太正

I think it is 大正.










nnt -

The Alexandre de Rhodes' dictionary can be found here :
http://purl.pt/961/1/












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Chinese Online Class - Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?! - Page 3 -

> Chinese Culture > Society
Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?!
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johnmck -

I suspect the reason why foreign men are not so interested in long term relationships is because
most of them only plan to be in China for a few months to a year, so a long term relationship is
not possible. This is similar to yourself, you plan to go to live in the US next year. Don't you
think it is a little unfair to drag a man into a long term relationship when you already intend to
leave him in the short term?



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owshawng -

"Asian girls are in demand in America. Caucasian guy's can't get enough asian girls"

If you could see how overweight and sloppy the average caucasian women in the US is outside of LA
or New York you would understand. I see lots of caucasian men with hispanic women too. When my
wife was 6 months pregnant she was still smaller then most caucasian women in the suburbs are.
(yes my wife is asian) And that was after she gained 25 pounds

I said average, not all caucasian women so please do not flame me for this. To verify this comment
watch a US based talk show and look at the audience. I would say most women are at least 30 pounds
overweight, the men even more. The average adult American, not man, but person is 190 pounds(85
kilos).










reisen -

haha, I am also not thin..... maybe 60kg or like that.
I am never like a traditonal chinese girl...










owshawng -

In America 60kg is thin, unless you are under 5ft. We have been supersized.










CheukMo -



Quote:

In America 60kg is thin, unless you are under 5ft. We have been supersized.

Absolutely true!

卓武










gato -



Quote:

In America 60kg is thin, unless you are under 5ft. We have been supersized

Not really true, unless you are in one of the Red States, where you chicken fry everything.










owshawng -

gato, where in the US are you? Most of the women in New Jersey are definitely at least 30 pounds
overweight, same goes for Portland, Oregon, and Seattle. All are blue areas. And I don't mean 30
pounds over being built like a model, but 30 pounds from the top of a healthy weight range for
their height. I would say at least 25% of the women in New Jersey outweigh me, and I'm 180 lbs/82
kilos. The women in Boston and New York are a lot smaller, but go out into the suburbs and hope
they don't step on your foot.










gato -

I guess you should take the PATH and spend your weekends in Manhattan, then. Hang out in Central
Park or Washington Square and get your fix.










owshawng -

gato, go to a mall in the suburbs of jersey and you'll see. I noticed the same thing when I was
living in Australia, the further away from the heart of the city's business district you go, the
heavier the people become.

Actually I took the PATH in today. Amazing how much thinner people are in the gold coast and the
city.










gato -

It's because they drive everywhere instead of walking like real cityfolks. I read somewhere that
the average Manhattanite walks two, three miles a day.












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Learn Chinese online - BLCU Feb 2008-contact each other - Page 3 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
BLCU Feb 2008-contact each other
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franksank -

Zoe:No I have not got the acceptance letter.I have applied for the Long term course which is about
eight months. still waiting for the acceptance letter.Looks as if its too early for them to start
processing the 2008 applications.I am getting impatient too.



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peahead -

marisa: that's true, and that's why i suppose we'll have to get there early and tell them which
room we'll like...i read around, and people who arrive there only a few days earlier normally
doesn't get a good room.










Salmonax -

I'm also planning on going to BLCU this spring for a semester, although I'm not 100 percent sure.

Looks like you guys are already applying. Do you really need to apply this early?










peahead -

salmonax: i'm not sure man, but knowing china, i guess it's better off applying little early than
late?










franksank -

salmonax:yes,peahead is correct.it takes a long time for them to process your application.










Marisa -

peahead: What time do you think is the best to arrive? Maybe a week before the program start?










zoelowey -

Good news. I called Admissions Office last night, and they will be sending out the acceptance
letter next week. I hope to see you all soon. Oh, by the way, what is the process in applying for
a dorm? Is there paperwork to be filled out now, or is it when we get there?










Salmonax -

I've been thinking about the dorm situation too. I've read elsewhere on this form that its
generally first come first serve and you have to wait until you are actually there to get a room.
So I have been thinking about arriving a week or so early and just staying at a hostel or
something until I figure the dorms out or find other accommodation's.

Anyway any tips about this process would be appreciated.










franksank -

I had asked the administrative department and they too said the same thing.first come first serve
basis.










agentjeff -

hey everyone, i am also planning to attend BLCU feb 08. hopefully the acceptance letters will be
sent out next week like someone mentioned. Does anyone know if most people that apply are
accepted. There aren't many requirements so i figure most will get accepted.












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Chinese Tutor - 疑 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
疑
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82riceballs -

I was wondering if there are any characters that follow the patterns:

疑: 擬 礙 凝
廣: 礦 曠 擴 爌
方 and the strange thing on right-top: 旗 旅 施
木 and the three-sided square: 櫃 框



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naturegirl -

Why don't I see a pattern?










82riceballs -

all of the characters in each row have the same radical (either left or right)

sorry if i didn't explain well










naturegirl -

I see. Don't all characters follow this pattern
口：喝 叫 哈 呵 唱 吧 叹
言：说 话 谚 语 识 认 论
走：越 起 趋 趁 超 赵 趣
昔：惜 错 措 借
虑 虚 虎 虐 虔
偷 喻 愈 愉 谕 渝
etc. etc

But there is a difference between radical (mostly on the left side) and the other thing on the
right side, that gives the pronunciation (I forgot how it's called...)










82riceballs -

i'm asking whether there are any words that have either the same radical or sound radical as those
listed.

e.g. i just discovered that 族 also fits into the third pattern.










amego -

Hi erm so you want more?

薿懝儗譺嶷觺

放旆旂旜旄旋旍旌旎旒旖旛 Most gotta do with flags.

鄺壙纊穬鑛儣懬櫎

樞

Most of these words are rather obscure and trust me u wont run into them often but im glad you're
interested. Jiayou!










82riceballs -

thanks!










amego -

Welcome










Lu -

For characters with the same radical, take a look in pretty much every dictionary, they usually
list characters by radical.
For characters with the same component on the right (or anywhere else), have a look at
zhongwen.com. Enjoy!










82riceballs -

謝謝！












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Chinese Character - Chinese for the next year....I hope so. -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Chinese for the next year....I hope so.
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Alvinho -

I'm aiming at learning Chinese mandarin next year.....until next year's march I gotta enhance both
English and Spanish......after that I want to study another language along with Chinese but I
haven't decided which one will be yet....

However, about Chinese firstly I'd like to know some basic sentesies used in everyday life......it
would be nice to start off the language with those basic tips...

If there's someone who's interested in helping me I'd be glad......no matter if either there are
chinese or foreign people who master the language.

My MSN is geodorneles@yahoo.com for those who are keen on chatting with me....

Xie xie



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Study Chinese - Best way to get a HSK Level 3 - Page 2 -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Best way to get a HSK Level 3
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






kudra -

Thanks gato. Let me say it again:

the 90% is the percentile rank relative to the population of test takers, i.e. a score better than
90% of the other test takers in some "standard population" of test takers.

It is not obvious what percent of the answers need to be correct to get a particular "scaled
score", or what I called a "normalized score." This means that even consistently getting say 60%
right on a certain section on practice test taken under realistic conditions means that you still
don't know what this means in terms of a scaled score.

Hence the call for data so we could figure out the conversion with real data.



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Learning Chinese - 以死相争= ??? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
以死相争= ???
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wrbt -

I'm obviously missing something here. 以死相争 is from an essay in Chinese voices project, the
entire sentence being:

如果遇到没良心的包工头，有时还要以死相争，才能拿到辛苦钱

Thanks in advance!



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rootfool -

以死相争=fight for sth by self-slaughter.
In here it means "they claim to the boss:if he don't give them the salary,they will kill
themselves."

hope it helps.










skylee -

The phrase means "fight like their lives depend on it", to the extent of threatening to kill
themselves to get what they want.










littleknight23 -

Sorry, 以死相争 does not mean …they will kill themselves
It means they will fight for their salary even if lost their lives
In fact, Chinese people hardly use self-destruction when the get unfair treatment, they usually
以死相争，it means they may kill the boss
And another related phrase is同归于尽 which means perish together
By the way, I am a native Chinese speaker and I work as a copywriter, so maybe my English is poor,
but my Chinese always are excellent

Please correct my sentence while you find the mistakes in it, I will appreciate you a lot










wrbt -

Thanks for the help all. I knew the first part but didn't know the xiang zheng and the dictionary
definition just didn't fit to make sense of it to me. All is clear now, much appreciated. Also:

Please correct my sentence while you find the mistakes in it

Use the plural "sentences" and adjust related references, also use "if" or "when" as the
conditional:
Please correct my sentences when you find mistakes in them
or
Please correct my sentences if you find mistakes in them


I will appreciate you a lot
For expressing appreciation in this case you'll want to reference the act of correcting instead of
the person:

I would appreciate it
much appreciated

It also might sound more natural at the beginning "I would appreciate it if...."










rootfool -



Quote:

Sorry, 以死相争 does not mean …they will kill themselves
It means they will fight for their salary even if lost their lives

see it here



Quote:

they usually 以死相争，it means they may kill the boss

I had never heard any news about "农民工 killed their boss",and I don't know what key words to
choose to find news about this in "baidu".

In my opinion,
以死相争 equals 以死相逼 but not 拼死相争 in this sentence.
Maybe I'm wrong,it's just a personal thought.










littleknight23 -

wrbt, thanks for your correcting

rootfool, I agree with you to a certain extent, but how to say, in my opinion, it seems that
以死相争 here means both "以死相逼, namely kill themselves for the salary" and "may kill
the boss and perish together". it depends on the situation

In fact, both "kill themselves" and "kill the boss" has happend in China.










fishyqs -

“以死相争”is a idiom, it means one fighting for something at all cost. So, maybe kill
oneself, maybe kill the boss, and do something other may have serious consequences .












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Speak Chinese - Everything is making me sick! - Page 2 -

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Everything is making me sick!
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Eden7 -

Beef,potato,and a can of beer are probably what you need right now.



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Rincewind -

Sounds like food poisoning to me too. (though I'm not a doctor either). Allot of people get
stomach upsets when they first come to china. Back home your resistant to most of the local bugs.
When you come here your body get hit by new bacteria and you get sick very easily.

Did you use tap water to brush your teeth? That's one that is easy to forget. Avoid cold foods
like salad and cold noodles noodles. Don't take ice in your drinks. Take loads of water with some
salt an sugar in it. As mentioned above, yogurt and milk are good (though the Chinese doctors will
tell you to avoid them, westerners are used to milks and it's actually good for settling us.)

If you're still sick today, go to the hospital. They'll give you a jag that will cut down on the
nausea and let you eat properly. They did that for me when I eat some dodgy squid last year.










optical -

Thanks for all the replies and insights. I took your advice here and have been forcing myself to
drink a lot of water (not ridiculous amounts, but a lot more than I'm used to drinking back in my
old hometown of Seattle) and focus on dry foods. And sure enough, it one day just suddenly
stopped. It was probably a combination of lack of water, and just needing to get used to the food
here, and possibly something I ate on the airplane but honestly who knows.

I have read a lot about avoiding food stalls and while sometimes the smell is disturbingly
tempting I have made myself avoid them just for precautionary sake.

Now if somebody could tell me what a pink light in a "barber shop" means then I'll be totally set.










Jekai -



Quote:

I have a question regarding this bacteria. Does this "Chinese" bacteria, once you get it inside
your stomach, stays there forever or does it go out when you're back in your home country?

I'm not a doctor (like everyone else!) but I think there's some truth to this. When I arrived in
Beijing for the first time last year, I was getting cramps and all the fun stuff for a week or
two. I've been back in Beijing the last four days and I feel perfectly fine. Though maybe the
cramps will stary back later after some resturant visits? Eep, I hope not.

I would bet money on airline food being part of the problem, too. EVERY time I eat a meal on a
flight, I don't even want to look at food for the better part of the day.

Also, as for the tap water, I noticed the water in my hotel was crystal clear, so I did some
searching, and aparrently as of a few months ago, they decided that Beijing tap water is safe to
drink. That's no gaurantee that the pipes the water passes through will keep it clean, but if it
seems clean, it just might be.










heifeng -

So I was debating where to put this post b/c its kinda nasty, but I think it is worth sharing to
prevent forum members the same problem and I know that in reflection this has happened to me more
than once...and now I know what was going on...

Basically prior to Chinese NY when everything was closed, I stocked on the remnants of food left
at wumei. Previously I had discovered they have some really big, yummy mantou that are white with
purple speckles (this is important later on).

Anyway, during one of the those chu-something days I think I just chowed down on some mantou for
dinner and breakfast, maybe a bowl of fangbianmian too. The next day I slowly began to feel quite
ill, but not the standard flu or food poisening ill feeling..it just slowly crept up. Anyway,
after about 1-2 days of just not feeling quite 'right'. By day 3 the vomiting began and lasted
until absolutely nothing was left...so I thought...and then I started to have massive chest pain
like someone was punching me. Then, several fish-ball sized chunks were literally launched. I took
note of this b/c usually vomit is at least partially digested (at least everything else was).
Anyway I did take a look at this huge chunks and just couldn't figure out what had caused it until
I noticed those purple speckles. Anyway, I eventually realized that this was all from the mantou
and my failure to 1. eat slowly and chew carefully (general bad habit) and 2. to actually eat the
mantou with something else like veggies I suppose...bite of mantou...bite of 'cai'...not just lets
just eat a mantou or two and call it quits for dinner, and 3, I dunno if drinking water and actual
mantou-expansion had anything to do with this, but maybe the fangbianmian soup didn't help
matters. Anyway, I felt better right away, but after realizing what happend I reflected back on
other occasions when I would just feel ill in China, which took me back exactly to when I use to
eat a ton of mantou at a certain office. Anyway, I have come to the conclusion, that mantou are
dense lil' badboys of the bread kingdom, so don't just chow down on them...eat them very slowly
and carefully.

Anyway, hope this over share saves someone else from mantou-induced discomfort since it doesn't
seem like a likely culprit, but apparently can still cause problems.










anonymoose -

So let me get this straight, you saw the same piece of mantou again 3 days after eating it?



and












heifeng -

well, to be exact the timeline and more thrilling details were like this:

day 1. mantou or 2 for dinner.
day 2. mantou and fangbian mian for lunch. few hrs later feeling a bit odd. Oh well, Dumplings for
dinner....
day 3. Not feeling great. oh well, hot pot for dinner. Ignore the pain and attempt to eat.
day 4. now I'm really feeling like crap...ughhhhhh...vomitting for 7 hours and then when
absolutely nothing was left and dry heaving and then the huge mantou chunks came up and then
everything was fine (just like a cat coughing up a fur ball!!).
day 5-forever onward. Chinese friends just laugh at me for just eating several mantou with
virtually nothing else for a meal and tell me not to do that again....and continue to chuckle
However, I will now be staying away from mantou.










roddy -



Quote:

day 5-forever onward. Chinese friends just laugh at me for just eating several mantou with
virtually nothing else for a meal and tell me not to do that again....and continue to chuckle

Now Chinese friends + the Internet. . .










heifeng -

yeah, I know. Consider it a lesson learned though!










gougou -

Actually the best breakfast I ever had was plain mantous with a handful of peanuts. Then again,
that was during a rainstorm in a 土楼 in Fujian province, so I had plenty of time to chew!












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Learning Mandarin - Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1 - Page 11 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1
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renzhe -



Quote:

I would like to get a Hanzi list to use in anki whith 3000 basic Hanzi, who can provide one?

There is a file for mnemosyne which includes all characters and words from HSK (covers around 9000
words using 2900 characters) and on top of that has the top 2000 characters sorted by frequency.
Look on their webpage.

Anki can load mnemosyne databases, so you can use that -- import it and save it from Anki. If you
do this, please remember to send the resulting file to the Anki developers, so other people can
benefit from it.

If that doesn't work for some reason, I posted the exact same data here on the forum: link. I'm
pretty sure that anki should be able to import TSV files.



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KONDDE -

@renzhe

TANKS! TANKS A LOT!

It something like that I was looking for, you was very nice to share this item for us! TKS

but,

In fact after I finished thwe last post I´d written here, I choose to folow KATZUMOTO-SAN steps,
in fact this man learned over www.zhongwen.com instead of Reisig book, in his site he explain on
his FAQ. He didn´t used Heisig Books but he highly recomend it for japanese learners. He learned
+4230 Hanzi (simplified and Traditional) at the same from this site and he explained why he did on
this way.

And now I gap the katzu-san essence.

What we need to do is in fact to learn the alfabect, buit a alfabect far from dificult to learn
than nine.

What I can recomend for the beginners like me is to learn at least 3000 basic or comom caracters,
but just hanzi, forgive about words, pinyin, tranlation, etc. Focus on get these chars. as quicly
possible. If you are learning it alone or take classes one or twice per week, stay focus on it.
And try to learn tarditional and simplified forms, because to read interesting material avaliable
on net you´ll see how is dificult to find a manga in S-form.

BTW

I just discovered that don´t need Heisig book for now.. at least for now.
To wait so many months without learn a simple alphabect?!?
Is too time..and.. keep on yours mp3 headphones listening to target language (JAPANSE< CHINESE,
KOREAN)doesn´t matter what happen










renzhe -

KONDDE,

this is one approach to learning Chinese that people use, but not the only one.

While I personally advocate good amounts of rote memorisation in the beginning stages of learning
Chinese, I also think that learning words, grammar, pronunciation etc. is important, and should
supplement this effort. This actually helps the character learning process.

Learning 3000-4000 characters without any other language aspects is difficult and you'll forget
many of them rather soon unless you fit them into a language context (words, sentences,
pronunciation, etc.)

This is why I would encourage you to go ahead and learn the common characters like you plan, but
also encourage you to follow a good textbook and get some spoken language experience. This will
make the characters stick much better, and make you UNDERSTAND them much better.



Quote:

What I can recomend for the beginners like me is to learn at least 3000 basic or comom caracters,
but just hanzi, forgive about words, pinyin, tranlation, etc. Focus on get these chars. as quicly
possible. If you are learning it alone or take classes one or twice per week, stay focus on it.
And try to learn tarditional and simplified forms, because to read interesting material avaliable
on net you´ll see how is dificult to find a manga in S-form.

Learning once or twice a week is a waste of time if you want to memorise 3000 characters quickly.
Twice per day is some sort of minimum, more is better, spaced out throughout the day.

It is also my experience that learning both the traditional and simplified characters is
detrimental. Once you master one set and the vocabulary that is built on these characters, you'll
be able to read the other set with very little extra effort, because the context (words, phrases,
grammar) and the make-up of the characters (the parts they consist of) will give you huge hints in
the vast majority of cases.

No fluent Chinese speaker I've met has learned both sets at once. They could all read both, and
all it took is some reading. Concentrate on one set, 3000+ characters is difficult enough.










renzhe -

I'd also add that learning Hanzi for Chinese is different than learning Kanji for Japanese, as the
characters are an integral part of the language in a much stronger way than they are in Japanese.

It's far more than an alphabet, and in fact learning pronunciations will help the memorisation
effort because most characters have a strong phonetic component that makes sense in Chinese, but
not in Japanese.










KONDDE -

@renzhe

Many tks for the tips,

In fact the Hanzi and Kanji are the same but in few exceptions. What I mean what I´m looking for
is to learn this, just the characters, I know it is very complicated to learn just his and so
focus on it, but while I´m studying the chars.(Hanzi S and T) I do my listening drills and try to
read some exercices books, I used to do 2 classes per month with a native teacher too.

But is very confortable when you know all the basic or odds charachters, after that to learn
sentences is a step too closet.

About T-form I just learn to recognise them, just it. Trying to learn 25-50 chars. per day is a
good number to attemp this in a fews months, what dou you gues?

Remember that: Kanji, Hanzi and Hanja are all the same, I know that theirs uses is far from
diferent and there are few exceptions to some chars. kind.

The process is:
1) to learn all 3000+ odds chars. using the Heisig mmemo method.

2) while you listening to target language do some exrcices. etc etc. the main focus I will stress
on chars.

BTW´: I´m in 350-400 chars at this moment. There are no much time to goal the 3000+ I hope.


Please fell free to exchange any idea, my mother thongue is not english is brazilian portuguese
instead, sometimes I cannot express my self correctly, me sorry,

TKS!










renzhe -

KONDDE,

you are right that the characters used in China, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan/Hong Kong are variations
on the same characters. The meaning is mostly the same too (though there are also some variations
in meaning).

But, for example, in Japanese, they are read using Japanese language. They were imported from
China and grafted onto the Japanese language over generations. Each character has 3 different
pronunciations, and at least two of them lose much of the phonetic part of the Chinese character.

The connection between the language (which can be written completely in hiragana or katakana) and
the characters is much weaker than in Chinese. You learn the Japanese language (using katakana and
hiragana), and then you learn how to write some common words using kanji instead, by memorising a
couple of thousand of them.

In Chinese, the characters basically ARE the language. That's the difference I was talking about.

You can still do the Heisig thingy and some people do, but I wouldn't just assume that the best
method for learning Japanese (whatever it might be) will be the same as the best method for
learning Chinese, because of issues like these. That, and the fact that the number of characters
commonly used in Chinese is far greater than in Japanese or Korean.



Quote:

But is very confortable when you know all the basic or odds charachters, after that to learn
sentences is a step too closet.

I agree that it's nice to have a buffer of characters you've memorised and far easier to learn
words and get better at reading that way. I do this too, but I'd suggest also learning other
things at the same time. Whatever you do, and whichever method you apply, you'll be learning
characters as long as you live, even native speakers do. So concentrate on getting enough to get
you started, give you exposure to written material, help you with following TV shows, etc.

Learning things in different context really helps with memorisation. You can get this context from
hearing the words, learning vocabulary, seeing the words in context, etc.



Quote:

Please fell free to exchange any idea, my mother thongue is not english is brazilian instead,
sometimes I cannot express my self correctly, me sorry

You're doing fine, no worries. Many people on this board don't speak English as their mother
tongue.



Quote:

1) to learn all 3000+ odds chars. using the Heisig mmemo method.

I've been studying chars intensively, and I figure it will take me about 2 years to get there. I
use an SRS program, have good memory, and do it daily. I also use mnemonics (similar to the ones
Heisig uses) for some more difficult characters. I'm at about 2500, but I'm learning vocabulary
and pronunciation at the same time too.

My point is -- you can learn so much more in this time. You can go from very basic stuff to
watching whole TV shows.












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Learn Chinese - Chinese character translation -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Chinese character translation
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hafiz -

Hello

I am not chinese and have no idea where to begin to read chinese.
I have attached a picture of three words that i have been given as part of a competition they are
the key to the next clues.
i was wondering if any body knows what they mean
any help would be greatly appreciated
thank you

sorry about the poor picture quality



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skylee -

There are actually 4 chinese characters - 第一次愛, meaning first love.

You may however wish to note that, instead of what is shown in the picture, the term for first
love in Chinese is 初戀.










hafiz -

so the whole thing means first love

thank you very much












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Learn Chinese - ZDT 0.7.0 beta 3 available - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT 0.7.0 beta 3 available
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bogleg -

Ok drahnier, check out the build here and see if it fixes your problem.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ease_id=532300

Chris



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drahnier -

It's getting better.

However, it could be perfect if the situation depicted below could be avoided (i. e. zdt would not
strip off the "。。。" when auto-filling in the traditional hanzi; if I add them anually, the
entry will be accepted).










bogleg -

Got it. I'll work on it.

Chris










drahnier -

I previously reported a problem with using handedict and adso in Beta2; well: the problem is still
present in build 07b3a (see screenshot below, which is fom 07b33a).

However, I discovered how to fix it: zdt (I guess when launched for the first time) creates a
".eclipse" folder in my home directory. Now, if the error strikes, I just have to close zdt, then
delete this folder, and restart zdt. zdt will recreate the ".eclipse" folder, but: the problem is
gone! After some runs of zdt the problem will eventually reemerge, though. Deleting the ".eclipse"
folder will fix it again.










F_Kal -

I have a strange vista(?) bug aswell. The program runs just fine and at the beginning it was
working perfectly. Then I added another category and when I decided for once to study just this
one, I realised that no matter what, It tests some other but not the one I choose... I mean I
start the session testing category X, that has 78 cards, but then it says that it has "Card:120
Left:20" and the cards are not the ones in my category...

I know my description is not of much use, but if there is something I can do to make it more
clear, I'd like to help... (I'll be offline for the next 7 days so forgive any delayed replies)

Btw the program is wonderful!










bogleg -

Yeah, this is a strange one that has been reported to me by one other person. Can you send me a
log file if this happens again? If you try with the rc5 build, you can use the Help > Report Bugs
function to gather some of the info I need to debug with.

Chris












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Chinese Tutor - ZDT: Characters sideways? -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: Characters sideways?
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Justin Goldberg -

Why are the characters sideways in ZDT, as seen in the attached screenshot?


Also to the author, I would like to be able to clear my search history in the dictionary in ZDT



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bogleg -

Hi Justin,

You'll need to change your font. (Window > Preferences > Fonts) All the fonts that begin with an @
symbol are sideways fonts.

I've added your feature request to clear your search history to my todo list. Would you be fine
with having it as a preference?

Chris












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Learning Chinese - ZDT: 0.7b2 - another error -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: 0.7b2 - another error
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drahnier -

On the category tab I used 'New" to crate a new category, then used the 'UP"-arrow to have it
moved to the top of my category list. Rapidly hitting the 'UP'-arrow to push the new category
upwards resulted in the pictured disarray of zdt. Thereafter, zdt was inresponsive.



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bogleg -

Interesting...how many categories do you have? Can you send me your backup file and i'll try to
reproduce on my system. (File > Backup Data)

Thanks

Chris










drahnier -

bogleg,

I have some 70+ categories added to the few which came with zdt.

I've send you a private email which has a zdt.backup attached to it.

Thanks for looking into this.












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Learn Mandarin online - Language Partner Request -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Language Partner Request
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alfeng -

MY MSN: alfen8888@msn.com


Hello everyone!

I'm Chinese student currently live in Guangdong.Now I want to looking for some foreign friends.So
I need you help me!
In my spare time, i love watching movies and cartoon from Japan.

As a 18-year-old student,i am interested in games and sports, i also like heavy metal.And i have a
lot of time online before the school open.

I hope i can help u learn Chinese,and if u have any problem in Chinese language studying and
Chinese culture, i'll try my best to help u!smiling smiley

P.S.Of course my English is not good and I hope you can Chinese.(At least a little)

Contact me: MY MSN: alfen8888@msn.com

MY MSN: alfen8888@msn.com



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Chinese Speaking - Pinyin Practice -

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Pinyin Practice
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AlexBrit -

Hello everyone

I'm really sorry as I realise this topic has probably been discussed ad infinitum, but I can't
find an extremely useful link I saw on here a couple of yrs ago (!)

I need the link with the web page displaying the complete pinyin chart on one page, with audio
files to listen.

Pls help.

Alex Ferraby, London.



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maximinus -

You'll be looking for a web page like this then:
http://www.quickmandarin.com/chinesepinyintable/










AlexBrit -

Maximinus, outstanding. Thanks.

If others know other similar pinyin practice pages, pls post.

Thanks.










trevelyan -

ChinesePod has a downloadable version available here. Quite a lot of extra content in the
write-ups for the various sections as well.

http://chinesepod.com/pronunciation










AlexBrit -

And thanks Trevelyan... that is a great download!

Alex.










imron -

Here's another one.












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Free Chinese Lesson - Please help with this Chinese Candy?? What is it? -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Please help with this Chinese Candy?? What is it?
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HeavenlyRikku -

Ok when I was in Chinese class, the teacher gave us a Chinese candy and it was small and
rectangular. It had the color of like almost wet sand and suprisingly enough it had the texture of
sand but not quite that grainy. It was like compacted but still fell apart when it was picked up.
It came in like a foil wrapper... it was sweet... umm... I think the teacher said it was a sesame
candy but I've looked it up and haven't seen it anywhere. If it was sesame, there was no sesame
seeds evident so it might have been ground in with it, does anyone know what this candy is, and
the name of it???



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Quest -

For a candy that falls apart, 龙须糖 comes to mind.










gougou -

Makes me think of 豌豆黄. Were you in Beijing, by any chance?










studentyoung -



Quote:

It had the color of like almost wet sand and suprisingly enough it had the texture of sand but not
quite that grainy. It was like compacted but still fell apart when it was picked up. It came in
like a foil wrapper... it was sweet... umm... I think the teacher said it was a sesame candy but
I've looked it up and haven't seen it anywhere.

According to your description above, I guess you are looking for sesame crisp candy
(芝麻酥糖zhi1 ma2 su1 tang2 ), but I just have no idea what the very kind you have tried. If
you are still in China, you can easily find them in local supermarkets. Please check the link
below for some reference.
http://image.baidu.com/i?z=0&cl=2&ct...%D6%CC%C7&pn=0



Quote:

If it was sesame, there was no sesame seeds evident so it might have been ground in with it,

Yes, it might because the sesame seeds have been ground too small and wrapped in the candy, so you
might hardly find sesame seeds evident.

Thanks!












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Chinese Pinyin - Why do caucasians love English? - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Why do caucasians love English?
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Page 3 of 7 < 12 3 45 > »






gato -



Quote:

Anyways, I could hear their conversation clearly and not only did their conversation include the
odd English word, they would also drop whole English phrases in the middle of or at the end of
their sentences.

It's probably because they speak mostly English at work, and as a result, sometimes English
words/phrases roll off the tongue faster than Chinese ones.



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Xiao Kui -



Quote:

The likelihood that two caucasians mutually speak better Chinese than English is small, so when
you do speak in Chinese together it looks/sounds incredibly pretentious to other foreigners and
many Chinese, and just plain stupid to other Chinese.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Also the speakers could be just honoring a language pledge

If you're Caucasian then Chinese are constantly trying to corner you into speaking English, even
when your level of proficiency in their language is much more advanced then theirs in yours. You
have to take advantage of any opportunity you get to speak Chinese, and if someone is willing to
speak Chinese with you then you can't afford to be picky abt that person's race. Instead of
judging foreigners who speak English to each other, you might try imitating this habit, then you
won't be jealous of their Chinese and insist on accusing them of being pretentious. (Okay, now I'm
judging, but when we accuse others of showing off a lot of times it just sounds like we're
jealous.)

Although it's true that practice with a native speaker is the best option, any kind of practice
that is forcing you to think in and express yourself in Chinese has value!










david1978 -



Quote:

Where did that come from? Are we reading different threads?

Roddy, this attitude is far and wide. I'm surprised you haven't encountered it living in China
amongst Sinophiles. You can see it in the very title of this thread: "Why Do Caucasians Love
English?" The inference of course is that there is something wrong with "Caucasians" (what an
absurd choice of a word) "loving" English. I'm sure you would never see a post about why the
Chinese "love" Mandarin. Chinese is beautiful, and historically rich, and has so much cultural
value, and blah, blah, blah...but English is just a "tool for communication."










roddy -

I can't see anyone doing that here and I'd have to sit down and think before I could claim to have
encountered it in China. I suspect it's the kind of thing you've got to decide exists before you
can see it.










Mugi -

Sthubbar,

You may want to re-read my original post and work on your English reading comprehension before
focusing on your Chinese... The conclusions you draw regarding what is pretentious and what is not
are illogical. Having said that, it's clear that you're not here looking for answers, but rather
simply intent on venting your anger at the seemingly rude way someone dealt with what appears to
me (not having been there I can't be sure, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm totally off-base
here) your prattish and/or insulting behavior.



Quote:

I wonder what the OP would think of native speaking Chinese speaking English to native speaking
Chinese. I see a lot more of that go on frankly. Not when I'm by myself - I'm not caucasian, but
all the time when I'm with my husband (who is).

Sthubbar, what do you think? I find this equally pretentious, especially when their English is
clearly not as good as their Chinese. However, as someone else has said more clearly than I did
initially, if English is the best common language of communication between them, then I don't have
a problem with it (Northern Chinese and Taiwanese visiting HK often have to resort to English to
communicate). It's usually easy to tell from someone's body language, mannerisms and tone whether
they're being "pretentious" or not.

Sthubbar, in all honesty, which language could you and the German student most easily communicate
in? If it's English, then if I were the German guy I would feel offended at being approached in
Chinese. If Chinese is really the more effective language, then there are clearly other issues
involved between the two of you.










yonitabonita -



Quote:

I'm sure you would never see a post about why the Chinese "love" Mandarin. Chinese is beautiful,
and historically rich, and has so much cultural value, and blah, blah, blah...but English is just
a "tool for communication."

I think that's an unfair distortion of the meaning of the post.

In his own words:


Quote:

Chinese, like any other language is a tool for communication, and I find it far more pretentious
for people to advocate that the language you speak should be determined by your ethnicity

I think Imron meant that 'language' is a tool for communication. Not that 'English' is 'just' a
tool for communication. I can't say that any fair reading of his comment can lead one to conclude
that he was privileging one language over the other. In fact I'm quite baffled by the logical leap
- that is, if of course, you were referring to Imron's comment - forgive me if you were just using
his quote to illustrate something else entirely different.

Frankly, through my time living here, or anywhere else, I've seen no evidence of Chinese language
worship at the expense of English. Sure, that attitude might exist - because every sort of
attitude must exist - but I can honestly say that I've never encountered it.

y










wushijiao -

I think the spirit of the original post was something along the lines of “I have come to this
school to learn Chinese. You have come here to learn Chinese. Why don’t you want to speak
Chinese?” Perhaps some of the wording here are there could have been improved, but then again,
we all make unintentional mistakes in phraseology.

Perhaps, in order to avoid casting doubt of the pretentiousness/worthiness of other human beings,
it might be best to say up front, “do you mind if I only speak in Chinese? I know it may seem
strange, but I’m really here to learn, and I’m kind of doing a language pledge thing (explain
if need be)”. If they agree, they agree. If not, just use English, or whatever works best. No
hard feelings. Maybe we could all decrease the negative feelings towards others.










Mugi -



Quote:

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Why?



Quote:

Also the speakers could be just honoring a language pledge

This may or may not be a good language acquisition method, but it appears not to be the situation
here.



Quote:

If you're Caucasian then Chinese are constantly trying to corner you into speaking English, even
when your level of proficiency in their language is much more advanced then theirs in yours.

This is getting a bit OT, but I never had this problem (and I'm as white as they come) when I
lived in China or whenever I travel back there. But I do hear a lot of people complaining about
it. Seems to happen here in Japan too, although to a lesser degree. I think it has more to do with
the way other people see you - do you look like you'd be up for chatting in English? I'm often
told I look "serious" (so probably not very affable), which might account for why I've never had
this problem










imron -



Quote:

What irritates me is that all you guys who look down upon any Westerner who cherishes and values
his own history and language as a bigot or zealot, will endlessly admire the ethnocentricity and,
basically, cultural chauvinism and supremacism of the Chinese. To me, this is a pathetic double
standard.

How does speaking Chinese to other westerners equal looking down at people who cherish their own
values, history and language, and how does it equal endlessly admiring the Chinese? That's an
amazing leap of logic you've made there.

To get back on topic though, language is shaped and formed by the things you mention, but at the
end of the day, it's still a tool used for communicating those things and more to the people
around you. My purpose in learning Mandarin isn't so I can change my identity to somehow be more
Chinese or because I think the cultures and beliefs are somehow better than my own, rather it is
to communicate with those around me. Sometimes those around me are other westerners who, as
students of Mandarin, also like practising their Chinese. In such a situation I see nothing
pretentious or wrong with doing that.










Mugi -



Quote:

Perhaps, in order to avoid casting doubt of the pretentiousness/worthiness of other human beings,
it might be best to say up front, “do you mind if I only speak in Chinese? I know it may seem
strange, but I’m really here to learn, and I’m kind of doing a language pledge thing (explain
if need be)”. If they agree, they agree. If not, just use English, or whatever works best. No
hard feelings.

Some sound advice!












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Chinese Speaking - I need a confirmation re translation -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
I need a confirmation re translation
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Arbeitsfuhrer -

I wanted to write something in memory of my deceased father on Chinese on my back. So I have tried
to find the right translation. In my search the following symbols on simplified Chinese
纪念父亲 were translated to me as "Commemorates the father" or "In memory of father".
Nevertheless I want to write them vertically. Can somebody help is it correct to do so and if yes
then by which order should I write them not to loose the original meaning. Can I write them like
this:

纪
念
父
亲

Or I must write them in this order:

纪念 - comemoration
父 - father
亲 - own

I would also appriciate if somebody can tell me how this is prononced.

Thanks in advance good people!



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imron -

It's fine to write them vertically as you have. The pronunciations are:

纪 jì
念 niàn
父 fù
亲 qīn










Arbeitsfuhrer -

Thank you very much, I appreciate your response!

I wish you a nice day!










aimering -

well~
there're also other choices of words which might be more formal~

eg, 悼念,means "grive"
or, 忆父, (this one is somehow like Classical Chinese), also means "in memory of my father"

pick your favourite^^。












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Chinese Studies - Calling all geeks. - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Calling all geeks.
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






Lu -

There is just no cultural equivalent in China of the American/Western geek, I think. Studies day
and night? Loves playing computer games? Uncomfortable in a bar? That description fits a really
large portion of the Chinese students. They would hardly have derogatory terms about themselves...



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