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So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching English?
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Long Pan -

Interesting article from last week China Daily (June 6th), about English teachers in China.
Extract:

Critics say most teachers are dedicated, career-oriented and experienced, but the growing industry
could become disreputable unless it's standardized. And English teachers have become the subject
of hot debate on websites and blogs and among college instructors and Chinese students. "They come
to China for something else, not to teach," said Niu Qiang, a visiting professor of the English
Department at Changchun University in Jilin Province, who has written about the lack of standards
for foreign teachers. "We should rule out or scrutinize those unqualified teachers." So, what do
they come for, if it's not for teaching?



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heifeng -



Quote:

The goal, they say, is to revamp the qualification process so that foreigners aren't hired solely
because they're native English speakers.

hahah this cracks me up because I get chaised down the street by people trying to recruit
foreigners for some random English teaching jobs on a weekly basis. The funny thing is, MOST
people don't even ask if I am a native English speaker... If you look the part people are willing
to give you an English teaching job in China...saying SOME of these foreigners teaching English
are unqualified NATIVE English speakers is already being too generous...

I personally came to improve my Chinese and you can beat me to death and I still won't teach
anyone English period. I have always felt that just because I speak English doesn't mean I am
qualified to teach it, plus I really have no interest in teaching at all. Although this is talking
about English teachers being qualified, I also think it is wrong for locals and these school
operators to assume every foreigner here either teaches, is willing to teach, or is even remotely
qualified to teach English. I personally get really annoyed that I have to dodge the bullet almost
every single day while I am in China, from requests from almost all my teachers who have colleages
and bosses who have children studying English, down to the granny in my apartment building and the
stranger on the street...to top it off, it is even worse knowing that many people are only
interested in befriending you for your English ability and even a seemingly kind gesture will
eventually end in the question of teaching someone English...

As far as the

Quote:

reputations of many male foreign teachers outside of the classroom

I am sure some are just messing around with the precise girls who are going out of their way to
find a foreigner for a multitude of reasons anyway. I can only assume it's too much effort to
corrupt the remaining young, innocent Chinese girls when the others are already throwing
themselves at you...










jbiesnecker -

I was one of those unqualified foreigners without a related degree once, and to be honest I
wouldn't have hired me for the job I did, though I would like to think that I did my level best
(and it's not like the university offered any support whatsoever). I just used the time that I had
to study and then used those skills to find something better.

Obviously there needs to be a better system of vetting English teachers, but that is just one item
on a long list of better systems that need to be established here.










mr.stinky -

"growing industry could become disreputable unless"

unless? it's a well-known secret that anyone with a white face (regardless of native
language) can get a job teaching english. no offense to the qualified teachers here, but
anytime someone tells me they're teaching english in china, i immediately assume they
can't find a real job in the real world. due to no qualifications, or perhaps a degree in
comparative philosophy.

"They come to China for something else, not to teach,.....We should rule out or scrutinize
those unqualified teachers."

those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who can't teach, teach english in china.
there are qualified teachers here for various reasons, it seems the bulk of those i've met
are nothing more than backpackers who have run out of funds. rule them out, and you're
not left with much. how easy is it to lure someone here with a US$6K salary?










imron -



Quote:

how easy is it to lure someone here with a US$6K salary?

But Mr. Stinky, the answer should be obvious and is mentioned clearly in the article. People come
to "live in a rich culture with an ancient history and strong economy". Haha, ok, so I laughed out
loud when I read that too.










Senzhi -

Well ... I'm an Adult Educator graduate and I am fully qualified to teach English (no TEFL stuff
... but a real university degree). I do also have a lot of business experience.
I have lived, worked and studied extensively in Ireland, so you can assume my English to be
competitive with native speakers, whatever the heck 'native speaker' really means.

But ... I'm Belgian.

I received a good strong contract to teach in a business environment, not only teaching English
but more importantly to teach the western business culture to adult business people.

However, the Guangdong government initially refused my Z-visa application, because I was ...
simply ... Belgian, and I quote "Belgians cannot speak English".

It took us quite some "guanxi" to settle things. My employer is happy (and so am I), and has in
fact kicked some native speakers out, as they had no proper teaching qualification ... and you
could see it in the progress of the average student.

I do not consider TEFL, CELTA or Trinity etc. to be a proper teaching qualification! These courses
are simply too short, and are merely in my opinion just money-making businesses.
A proper teaching qualification can only be obtained as part of a college or university degree.

One thing I do admit (according to the article): I did come to China to have a more easier
lifestyle, to get away from the business stress I was experiencing for many years.

But the government should start to understand that in teaching English, both the words 'teaching'
and 'English' are equally important. And that not everybody from English speaking countries are
really native English speakers (e.g. L.A. in the states, where the majority is Spanish speaking).
Not everybody else outside these countries do have the same level of English as their Chinese
counterparts and can in fact speak and write English as fluent as a native (especially business
people).

In fact, schools and local governments persistently refuse people from Asian origin, even though
they are native English speakers. Hell, some don't even speak any of the Asian languages, and only
know English!
An ethnic Asian could have never set foot in China, being a university qualified teacher, only
know English as his/her native language ... and never get a teaching job here.

Food for thought. Full stop.

P.S.: any English grammar mistakes are purely typo










wushijiao -

I think people come to teach in China for various reasons. Critics often present a false choice:
you’re either here to unselfishly teach English to the masses while learning about the “5000
years” of brilliant Chinese history, or you’re here because you’re a pathetic loser who
cannot find a job in your home country, and you partake in womanizing, and excessive boozing.

I think it is a bit more complex than that. I think that there are other reasons that may not seem
as obvious. One is status. I once saw a study that said that most people would prefer to make
$30,000 a year in a society in which the per capita average is $10,000 than live in country in
which they make $50,000 a year and the per capita is $100,000. I know those numbers are off, but
the general point is that people often prefer to live in a society in which they have more
relative social status, even if it means that they are not as well financially compensated as they
could be in their home countries. I have taught with many teachers who could easily get better
paying jobs in their home countries, and who take their teaching seriously (even if they are just
mediocre teachers), and yet, they do seem to subtly relish the enhanced power and authority that
they have in China (or any developing country), partly because they wouldn’t have that same
authority in their home country.

Also, there are the type of people who come to China with some sort of idealistic goals that they
want to promote. Perhaps that is the advancement of the notion of human rights and democracy, or
the advancement of some religion. In any case, these people often project a sense of what their
ideal world is onto the, what is for them, the blank slate of their new host society. Most people
who I have met who might fall into this category have been interesting and morally-sound people,
but yet their motivations for coming to China are not merely to “teach English”.

It goes without saying that there are also tons of people who want to help people, improve their
Chinese level, have an “adventure”…etc. I think most people come to China for a combination
of reasons, not just one.

I also think it is worth pointing out that, at lest in my experience, the vast majority of the
teachers I have met were pretty serious about their teaching, and at least tried hard. Many that I
have worked with over the years have certainly improved, even if they were not fully qualified.

As far as qualifications, ideally, a person would have:

-A university degree in education or linguistics, combined with practical experience teaching ESL
-At least a few years of experience
-Be a native speaker
-Have a strong knowledge base of the various cultures that speak English
-Have a strong sense of cultural sensitivity and history of the host country
-Be at least somewhat aware of the special needs of the L2 speakers in question
-Be an experienced language learner

Clearly, there is no practical way China can accommodate all of these requirements because the
people who meet all the above criteria are pretty rare, and the price of hiring these ideal
teachers would therefore be way above the market price for teachers. There are a few hundred
million people trying to learn English in China, after all. The market is huge. Also, if you limit
it to native speakers, you miss out on some qualified “non-native speakers” (like Senzhi). If
you limit it to having a university degree, then you get some people who are accomplished
scientists or IT specialists, but are disastrous in front of a class.

Also, it’s worth mentioning that, as far as I know, most Chinese teachers (of English, math,
history, physics…etc) don’t generally have an education degree either. In other words, they
are also not necessarily qualified in the sense that they know how to teach effectively, even if
they are competent in their subjects of study.

I think it would be wise to see the standardization of qualifications in the context of China’s
overall educational environment, and in terms of the market needs, and needs of each individual
province or municipality (ie. Gansu will be different from Shanghai).

In short, I think the Chinese education system has come a long way very quickly, but the sheer
number of students combined with the rapidly changing requirements of the job market have created
a perfect storm of chaos, in which trying to regulate the “teaching English in China” field
certainly needs the government to step in and tighten regulations, but the regulations wouldn’t
be very realistic and practical.










gato -



Quote:

Also, it’s worth mentioning that, as far as I know, most Chinese teachers (of English, math,
history, physics…etc) don’t generally have an education degree either. In other words, they
are also not necessarily qualified in the sense that they know how to teach effectively, even if
they are competent in their subjects of study.

A solid understanding of the field that's being taught, I think, should come first, and then a
personality amenable to teaching, and lastly teaching skills. If a person has the first two, he or
she can learn the teaching skills on the job. Teaching is something mostly learned by doing
instead of from books.

Slightly off-topic: compare the math performance of Chinese students with Americans who are mostly
taught by math teachers who have education degrees but do not have a degree in either math or a
math-based field. It was relatively for China to find those math and science teachers since it
used be that 70% or more of its college students studied in a technical field, whereas in the US,
most undergraduates major in the liberal arts and a very large percentage get a B.A. in education.










wushijiao -



Quote:

A solid understanding of the field that's being taught, I think, should come first, and then a
personality amenable to teaching, and lastly teaching skills. If a person has the first two, he or
she can learn the teaching skills on the job. Teaching is something mostly learned by doing
instead of from books.

Agreed. It’s easier to teach someone how to teach than it is to teach a person to a high degree
of competence, especially in fields like math or physics, but even in the humanities. But Chinese
students also do a ton more homework than their American counterparts.










xianu -

I know there are a lot of foreigners in China teaching English, but it is truly iunfair to say
"they all" are doing it just because they can't find a job elsewhere in the "real world."

I kind of resent Mr. Stinky assuming that "those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who
can't teach, teach english in china."

Agreed: there are unqualified teachers all over the place, and even crappy qualified teachers. (do
you remember your K-12 education? or even your college education?) The fact that you The idea that
you only are a native speaker of a language does NOT make you a decent teacher of the language.
That you are "qualified" teacher of the language or the subject does not make you a good teacher
of the subject. To say that one teaches because s/he lacks the skills to do the "real thing" well
enough to make it legitimately is ludicrous.

I know many people who teach English in China and other countries for real reasons (not because
they can't find something else), more often, the reason being that they want an international
living experience and need to find a way to fund it. I have had a bunch of students come to me and
ask abotu teaching in China or Taiwan, asking about how to get a job, what they need to qualify
for the jobs, and once they get them, what they need to do to prepare themselves. Most of these
graduating students are sincere in learning about teaching methodologies and about how to make
their classes good, and worthwhile for their students. Most are scared of their new
responsibilities and are actively reading and discussing second language acquisition theories.
Teaching is much more than just certificates, credentials, etc, and to reduce it merely to that is
shameful.

(and yes, I am a teacher, though never of English).












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