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Chinese Pinyin - Liulichang Antiques Street

2009-01-31T06:21:00.001-08:00

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Liulichang Antiques Street

( 2008-07-08 )

Liulichang is known for its ancient books, calligraphy, paintings, rubbings, ink stones and ink. The street, which is only 750 meters long, is located south of Hepingmen (Peace) Gate within walking distance of the Hepingmen Quanjude Peking Duck Restaurant.

During the time of Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368) and Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), a colored glaze factory (Liuli Chang in Chinese) was in production there, which made glazed tiles for the palaces, temples and residences of the officials, hence the name “Liulichang.”

In the Ming and Qing (1644-1911) times, Liulichang was a favorite haunt for scholars, painters and calligraphers that gathered there to write, compile and purchase books, as well as to paint and compose poetry. By the Kangxi period (1661-1722), Liulichang had become a flourishing cultural center
and was described as having "homes and buildings lined up like fish scales." During the Qianlong period (1736-1796), the street was even more prosperous. When Emperor Qianlong decided to revise the Complete Library of the Four Branches of Literature, he ordered scholars from the project, and
Liulichang became a center for research in textual criticism.

In 1927, when Hepingmen (Peace) Gate was opened up in the city wall, the bridge was demolished and Nanxinhua Road was built, dividing Liulichang into eastern and western sections. The east became known as a center for antiques and curious, while the west was famous for its books. Shanghai
Commercial Press, China Publishing House and Youzheng Press, which published books of Chinese calligraphy, all established branches here.

In 1950, the Government passed laws to prohibit the export of valuable antiques and books. The Palace Museum and the Museum of Chinese History bought up all important historical artifacts, paintings, calligraphy and other works of art that had been scattered among Liulichang's shops.

In the 1980s, the street was renovated and various specialized shops were rebuilt. With brightly painted doors and eaves and gracefully curved black-tile-roofs buildings, a little of old Beijing's lifestyle retained here.

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Chinese School - Dancing in the Light of Yin and Yang

2009-01-13T06:08:00.001-08:00

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Dancing in the Light of Yin and Yang

A shining steel ball caught in the cracks of a crag reflects the sun; a tender, fresh flower, immersed in crystal water, glows with a mysterious, purple light; a blooming rosebud catches fire from above.

Alwin van der Linde, a Dutch-born Spanish artist, impresses viewers with his poetic photographic works, oil paintings and thought-provoking remarks.

The versatile artist, who crosses over many art genres, is holding a joint art show with Shao Hua, chairperson of Chinese Photographers Association, at the Beijing World Art Museum. On show are some 90 works of photography and oil paintings created by the two artists. In her works, Shao has
successfully created images that allude to oil paintings, lithographs, relief works and even traditional paper cuttings.

Linde says Shao's innovative photographic works, featuring both Chinese and Western stage shows, "share so much with my works that try to break the boundaries of art genres".

Visitors marveled at his innovative creation of illusory beauty.

"Linde's pictorial rendering and personal interpretation of the images maintain a magic and artistic vibration that touch me deeply," says Yun Fei, an art critic in Beijing.

Some works, such as the Burning Rose Bud, puzzle the Chinese viewers. However, Linde declines to pinpoint the meaning of his paintings. "For me, art is more to raise questions than to give answers," he explains. "Our world is a mystery; our life is a mystery; art is a mystery; and my art is my way
to explore the mysteries."

"Art helps bring together people from different backgrounds. The juxtaposition and interaction of works by Linde and Shao shows us how art transcends time, space, and cultural differences and wins the hearts of viewers," said Sun Jiazheng, head of All China Federation of the Arts and Literary
Circles, at the opening ceremony last week.

Now living and working in Madrid and Montanchez (Extremadura) of Spain, Linde is working on the development of a foundation for the figurative arts and experimental music.

It is the first time Linde staged an art exhibition in China.

Born in The Hague in 1957, the artist first carved out his name in Paris in the early 1970s. His works range from oils, murals, sculptures and photographs to electronic music, video, installations and experimental theater.

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Chinese Character - Sheng (male)

2009-01-12T06:01:00.001-08:00

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Sheng (male)

Dong Ge

Dong Ge was the son of Chen Shimei of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). He accompanied his mother Qin Xianglian to the capital, looking for the faithless father who was at that time Emperor's son-in-law. Chen Shimei not only refused to accept his original wife but went further to have the
mother and son assassinated. At last, his father received due punishment by being beheaded.

Repertoire:Qin Xianglian

Chun Mei

Chun Mei was the daughter of Chen Shimei of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). She went to the capital with her mother, Qin Xianglian, to look for her faithless father who was at that time Emperor's son-in-law. Chen Shimei not only refused to accept his first wife but went further to have the
mother and daughter assassinated. As the saying goes: sow the wind and reap the whirlwind. Chen Shimei was sentenced to be beheaded by Bao Zheng, the upright minister.

Repertoire:Qin Xianglian

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Chinese Character - Broadway Flavor The Sound of Music

2009-01-11T06:32:00.001-08:00

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Broadway Flavor The Sound of Music

Chongqing’s audiences will have chance to appreciate the Broadway Classic The Sound of Music between April 10 and 14. The music drama staged at the Chongqing People's Mansion is the first to be performed in Chongqing.

Cooperating with Broadway Asia Entertainment (“BAE”) and Troika Entertainment, Sound of Music features famous Broadway stars and wonderful stage designs to attract audiences, and especially white collar citizens.

The Sound of Music is known by most Chinese audiences by its film edition. But the musical edition is quite different from the film. In the music drama you can enjoy music you have never heard the film edition and interact with actors on the spot.

The Sound of Drama has been performed more than 2000 times since 1960 and this is the second time in China. It will proceed to its performance tour in Wuhan, Beijing, Shanghai and Macao after finished in Chongqing

Sound of Music

The Sound of Music is a musical with music by Richard Rodgers, lyrics by Oscar Hammerstein II, and a book by Howard Lindsay and Russel Crouse. It is based on the memoirs of Maria von Trapp, The Story of the Trapp Family Singers. Songs from the musical that have become standards include "The Sound
of Music," "Edelweiss," "My Favorite Things," "Climb Ev'ry Mountain," and "Do-Re-Mi."

The original Broadway production opened in November 1959, and the show has enjoyed numerous productions and revivals since then. It has also been made into an Academy Award-winning 1965 movie musical. The Sound of Music was the final musical written by Rodgers and Hammerstein; Hammerstein died of
cancer nine months after the premiere.

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Pnyin - Photos on Beijing Olympics Exhibited in Jordan

2009-01-10T08:57:00.001-08:00

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Photos on Beijing Olympics Exhibited in Jordan

"I totally agree with Mr. Rogge, because Beijing had changed so much in recent years, not only in the environment improvement, but also in economic development," said Mohamed, a Jordanian lawyer, who had lived in Beijing for more than two years since 1999.

"I could hardly recognize it when I visited it last month," he said.

Pointing a picture of Chinese people celebrating the moment when Beijing was declared to win the right of hosting the 29thOlympic Games on July 13, 2001, Mohamed said, "I was in China then and I am so proud that I witnessed the very moment."

"I can still remember the cheers and thrill of the Beijingers. Chinese people realized a long-held dream, and I wish the Beijing Olympics a great success," he added.

Editor:Wang Nan

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Learn Chinese online - Stories Behind Architectural Charm

2009-01-09T08:54:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Way>Custom

Stories Behind Architectural Charm

Summer palace

Auspicious structure

Seen high from Wanshou Hill (Longevity Hill), the Kunming Lake in the Summer Palace is shaped like a peach and the structures on the sides of the Tower of Buddhist Incense shaped like wings of bat. Peach is a Chinese symbol of longevity, and bats indicate happiness.

Was it simply a coincidence or a deliberate arrangement No historical accurate historical records have been found. But the legend goes like this.

To celebrate the 40th birthday of Empress Cixi, Emperor Tongzhi (reign 1862-1874) had the Qingyi Garden rebuilt and renamed it the Summer Palace, in 1873.

Lei Tingchang, of the seventh generation of the Lei family, was the chief architect for the reconstruction. He was asked to incorporate the themes of ‘happiness, fortune and longevity, or fu lu shou in Chinese, into garden’s design to please Empress Cixi.

Lei Tingchang had people dig a lake at the foot of Wanshou Hill. Seen high up from the top of Wanshou Hill, the lake, now known as Kunming Lake, looks just like a peach. Spanning over the lake was a 17-arch bridge. Lei Tingchang had some islands built along the bridge in the shape of a turtle,
also symbolizing longevity. What’s more, he had structures on the sides of the Tower of Buddhist Incense on Wanshou Hill shaped like wings of a bat. The Chinese word for bat, fu, means happiness. It was common practice in ancient Chinese architecture to incorporate auspicious meanings into the
overall planning of a structure.

Bronze ox to tame flood

A bronze ox stands on the bank of Kunming Lake. It was built during the reign of Emperor Qianlong (1735-1796) to tame the flood. As one of the Chinese traditional customs, the practice is said to have existed ever since the Xia Dynasty (22nd-17th century B.C.). Whenever and wherever Yu, the
official responsible for flood control, finished taming a flood he would sink a very big iron ox in the river, assuming that the flood could in this way be subdued. Towards the Tang Dynasty (618-907) the iron ox was no longer sunk into the river but instead to be laid somewhere on the river bank.
When Emperor Qianlong finished dredging the Kunming Lake and built a causeway he couldn’t do otherwise but lay a gilded brass ox here in order to tame the flood, and to memorialize it a “Golden Ox Inscription” was done on the ox’s back.

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Chinese Tutor - Chinese Performing Troupe to Tour Canada

2009-01-08T09:10:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Performing Troupe to Tour Canada

The China Broadcasting Performing-Arts Troupe started its performance tour today around six Canadian cities from February 14 through February 28.

The 24-member performing troupe will tour Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, and Edmonton and present performances in each city. The performing artists lineup includes the famous Chinese singer Wang Jieshi and the folk instrumental players Jiang Kemei and Zhang Gaoxiang.

This performance tour is designed to greet local Chinese residents and promote Chinese culture and achievements since the reform and opening-up policy was implemented 30 years ago.

The highlights of the performance will offer Canadian people and Chinese alike classic folk music, song, dance, acrobatics and magic tricks, all well selected and prepared by the troupe members. Zhang Xi, the vice director of the troupe, leads the performers.

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Free Chinese Lesson - Origin of Kites

2009-01-07T06:19:00.001-08:00

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Origin of Kites

According to the Shiji (Historical Records), written by the great historian Sima Qian (145BC – 87 AD), in the State of Lu (the present-day Weifang region) between 507-444 AD, a carpenter named Lu Ban made a magpie kite with bamboo and wood and set it to fly for three days without dropping.
“This carpenter Lu Ban once made a big eagle kite with wood, which carried a person and flew high into the sky for reconnoitering the position of the enemy (of the state of Song)”, the Shiji has recorded.

During the Western Han Dynasty (206 AD – 25 BC), paper started to be used in China. Due to the invention and use of paper, people began to make kites with it. Therefore, these were called “paper kites” in Chinese. During the Tang Dynasty (618-907 BC), bamboo whistles were attached to the
paper kites, and so when the whistles were blown by the wind, they gave out a sound that was similar to the Chinese musical instrument “zheng”. Since then, the “paper kite” has been known in Chinese as “feng zheng”, meaning “wind zheng”.

There are three other versions on the origin of the kite. That is, the kite originated from a leaf, sailboat and a flying bird.

Leaf: As the story goes, people in ancient times adored the phenomenon of leaves blown by the wind and flying all over the sky. They thus attached silk thread to leaves and flew them for entertainment.

Sailboat: It is also said that during the Warring States Period (475-221 AD), the sailboat had already been invented. People made kites on the basis of the same principle as sails.

Flying bird: The ancient Chinese, inspired by flying birds, made kites in the shape of birds, and named it after the birds, such as “paper glede” and “paper snipe”.

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Chinese Speaking - Complementary Info

2009-01-06T09:00:00.001-08:00

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Complementary Info

Downlaod:

Complementary Info

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Learning Mandarin - Packing List

2009-01-05T06:32:00.001-08:00

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Packing List

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Packing List

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Chinese Character - Bianque

2009-01-04T09:43:00.001-08:00

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Created in China>Traditional Chinese Medicine >Doctors

Bianque

Bianque, whose surname was Qin and original given name was Yueren, was born in Bohai (now Renqiu County of Hebei Province) in the Spring and Autumn and Warring States Period (770-221BC). As a child, he learned medicine from an old folk doctor, Mr. Changsang. He mastered Mr. Changsang's diagnosis
method and treatment techniques and became the most famous doctor in his time, and was an outstanding representative of medical experts in the Pre-Qin Period (before 221BC). He could diagnose diseases accurately, cure patients miraculously and bring the dying back to life,just like the legendary
god doctor Bianque. Thus, people simply called him Bianque. Gradually, many people forgot his real name, Qin Yueren.

After Bianque became famous, he toured all the kingdoms to cure diseases for people, and his areas of treatment often changed according to different regions. In Handan,he heard that most patients were women, so he worked as a "Daixia Doctor" (doctor specializing in gynecology);when he passed by
Luoyang,he saw that elders were highly revered there, so he became a doctor mainly treating diseases of the old such as the trouble in the ear or the eye;when he reached Xianyang, he learned that people of the Qin Kingdom regarded children as important,so he became a pediatrician. In his practice
of diagnosis,he had already applied the comprehensive diagnostic techniques of traditional Chinese medicines, namely, the four diagnostic methods: observation, auscultation and olfaction, interrogation, and pulse-feeling and palpation. "Observation" means looking at the appearance and tongue fur,
"auscultation and olfaction" refers to listening to the sound of the patient's speech and breath, "interrogation" refers to asking about the patient's symptoms, and "pulse-feeling and palpation" is just in the literal meaning. At that time, Bianque called those techniques "Wangse(observing the
color of the patient),Tingsheng(listening to the voice),Xieying(drawing a primary conclusion of the symptoms) andQiemai(feeling the pulse)". Bianque's ways of treatment varied,such as acupuncture, adhibition of medicine, operation, medicine taking and so on. But Bianque was assassinated by the
Dayiling (royal officer in charge of medicine) of the Qin Kingdom, Li Xi, who envied him very much.

Bianque was memorized and respected by people forever. Until now,in many of the places he had been to, there are memorial sites preserved, such as "Native Place of Bianque", "Village of Bianque", "Relics of Bianque", "Temple of Bianque", "Mountain of Doctor Bianque", etc., in Hebei, Henan,
Shandong and other provinces; a highly-skilled doctor is always praised as "Bianque coming to life again".

Bianque had nine disciples in his life, and it was because of these disciples that his high medical skill had been handed down. Till the Han Dynasty (206BC-220AD), his well-preserved works included nine volumes ofInternal Canon of Medicine, twelve volumes ofExternal Canon of Medicine, and thirteen
volumes of Bianque'sPrescriptions Approved by First Yellow Emperor, etc. The extant medical book of the Han Dynasty,Canon of Medicine of Difficult Diseases, is a work compiled on the basis of Bianque's medical skill, especially his knowledge on pulse-taking. Many of the basic theories of the
traditional Chinese medicine, which is still playing a great role in the health service of mankind, are closely related to Bianque.

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Learn Chinese - Acrobatic Ballet: Swan Lake

2009-01-03T04:59:00.001-08:00

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Acrobatic Ballet: Swan Lake

Acrobatic Ballet: Swan Lake

Guangdong Acrobatic Troupe of China

Since it was established in 1951, the Guangdong Acrobatic Troupe of China has performed in 55 countries and participated in 115 competitions. The troupe draws its inspiration from far and wide, utilizing the best of Chinese and foreign acrobatic arts to create programs that are imbued with both
traditional Chinese flavor and a dynamic modern perspective. The troupe has received numerous international awards. It is a three-time winner of the Golden Clown Award, the highest honor of the International Circus Festival of Monte Carlo; and a three-time winner of the Presidential Prize of the
Republic of France, the highest honor of France's World Festival of the Circus of Tomorrow.

Contact Information:

Presenter：Shanghai City Dance Company Limited
Contact: Zhang Jinzhou
Telephone: 021-6232-8320
Fax: 021-6232-8322
Email: zhangj@shcitydance.com
Address: 4F Western Building, No. 767 Changshou Road, Shanghai
Post Code: 200060

Introduction:

Wandering beside a lake in the forest, a young woman dreamily picks wildflowers. Suddenly, a huge and fierce black eagle swoops down out of the heavens and magically transforms her into a beautiful swan. A European prince has a dream in which he sees the young woman and all that has transpired.
Captivated by her elegant demeanor and uncommon beauty, he sets out on a long and arduous trek to find her. Finally vanquishing the numerous dangers the black eagle puts in his path, in the end the prince is united with his true
love.

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Chinese Character - Chinese Lesson

2009-01-01T17:37:00.001-08:00

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Living in China

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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Luobot

Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 14th January 2008, 12:46 PM

Replies: 27

Sticky: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Views: 2,264

Posted By Luobot

Re: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

I found an interesting feature by accident: I did a dictionary search for "xang4" and ZDT returned
the results for "ang4". Likewise, "xang1" returned results for "ang1". This is with the search...

Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 13th November 2007, 01:29 PM

Replies: 27

Sticky: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Views: 2,264

Posted By Luobot

Re: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

After clicking Yes ...

Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 13th November 2007, 01:27 PM

Replies: 27

Sticky: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Views: 2,264

Posted By Luobot

Re: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Hi Chris,

I tried doing as you suggested, and it seemed ok until I tried accessing help > help contents,
when I received an error message referring to line 11. I'll see if I can upload screenshots...

Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 11th November 2007, 05:04 PM

Replies: 27

Sticky: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Views: 2,264

Posted By Luobot

Re: ZDT 0.7.0 Available

Hi Chris,

Sorry if I’m asking questions that are probably answered somewhere else, but I couldn’t find
it on a search of “ZDT install” or “ZDT upgrade.”

My questions are:

- Is it ok to install...

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Learning Mandarin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-24T04:54:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 3rd March 2008, 07:50 AM

Replies: 5

Traditional Support

Views: 305

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Traditional Support

Thanks to pressure from Mark at toshuo.com, the annotation engine is now outputting popups in
traditional characters (when input is traditional characters). Will be working on hooking up the
editing...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 18th February 2008, 12:34 AM

Replies: 5

Traditional Support

Views: 305

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Traditional Support

I'm generally happy to let people use the adso materials commercially provided they attribute the
materials and contribute back to the project. I don't think it's onerous to send an email asking
for...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 17th February 2008, 09:01 PM

Replies: 5

Traditional Support

Views: 305

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Traditional Support

The academic team at ChinesePod is using some Adso-related tools to help with lesson preparation,
which is helping us flag some of the issues that still exist with duoyinci and pushing forward
the...

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 17th February 2008, 06:21 PM

Replies: 5

Traditional Support

Views: 305

Posted By trevelyan

Traditional Support

We've fixed the issues with automatic traditional character recognition that character pointed out
in another thread. The updated code (and database) is available for download. Anything from
version...

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Chinese School - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-23T04:57:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 24th February 2005, 06:57 PM

Replies: 43

Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

Views: 6,910

Posted By johnmck

Jo-Ann, try the web site:...

Jo-Ann, try the web site: http://www.polyglot-learn-language.com/ it will allows to find a pen-pal
who speaks Chinese and wants to learn English (or any other language you can speak). Using the...

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Chinese Character - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-22T04:56:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th July 2006, 09:30 PM

Replies: 44

Poll: Why learning spoken Chinese as a foreigner is easy and hard

Views: 7,920

Posted By RobAnt

Surely the key to learning anything, and...

Surely the key to learning anything, and particularly a language, is to relax and have fun.

Don't consider learning Chinese to be a series of lessons, but simply a lot of fun. I love it when
my...

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HSK - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-21T04:58:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 3rd February 2005, 10:40 PM

Replies: 12

Online pinyin dictionary with audio pinyin prnunciation

Views: 9,731

Posted By zhuang

Pinyin textbook

Hi,
I don't know any online dictionary in pinyin, but I can recommend a textbook which uses pinyin
only. It is a beginners'textbook entitled: Chinese in 3 months, by Hugh Baker. If you are
looking...

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Chinese School - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-20T05:00:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 12th June 2004, 11:39 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

No, if there is no glottal stop, then you get the...

No, if there is no glottal stop, then you get the Mandarin and Cantonese wu (a pure /u/). It's
still different from the English woo, although it doesn't sound at all like the English
pronunciation...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 11th June 2004, 10:46 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

Well that's what I have been saying all along! ...

Well that's what I have been saying all along! If u is wu, then lu is lwu. There is no glottal
stop before the /u/ in Mandarin, so it sounds like there is a w consonant, but there isn't.
Whereas...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 11th June 2004, 09:29 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

Please provide a reliable source stating there is...

Please provide a reliable source stating there is a consonant w before /u/ in pinyin wu. I'm
pretty sick of discussing to a wall.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 10th June 2004, 04:15 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

No, there is no extra w in the sound wu. If...

No, there is no extra w in the sound wu. If there is, then lu will be lwu too. It is simply /u/.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 3rd June 2004, 11:18 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

glottal stops can occur before consonants as...

glottal stops can occur before consonants as well.

一、医、乌、安、愿、凹、碗等 in Wu dialects have glottal stop initials.

每、拿、拉等 in Wu dialects have glottal stop initials as well.

One of the most common...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 8th April 2004, 02:32 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

yup that's what I meant. not that the v is a...

yup that's what I meant. not that the v is a lisp.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 7th April 2004, 01:36 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

所谓“把一些带 w [ u ] 的音，读成 v ”，并不是英语那种唇齿摩擦音 [ v ]...

所谓“把一些带 w [ u ] 的音，读成 v ”，并不是英语那种唇齿摩擦音 [ v ]
。它只是在合口呼零声母的位置上出现了轻微的唇齿动作，丝毫没有摩擦音�
��痕迹。唇齿无擦通音国际音标是花体的
http://chinese.pku.edu.cn/bbs/attachments/F4bhXQ_v.gif.

Calling it a "v" will give people the wrong...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 11:18 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

Exactly.

Exactly.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 06:46 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

Um no, you are wrong. What I believe also...

Um no, you are wrong. What I believe also happens to be the official interpretation of Standard
Mandarin Chinese used in the PRC.

You are confusing tone 2 with y and w. In nonstandard speech, yes...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 05:43 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By ala

The pinyin wu is tricky. I think the w- is not...

The pinyin wu is tricky. I think the w- is not pronounced at all if followed by an /u/. 乌鸦 is
pronounced uya without the w. 中午 is sometimes slurred (because of the -ng in 中), and you
have a w ish...

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Learn Chinese - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-19T04:56:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 26th June 2004, 07:32 AM

Replies: 55

Married to a Chinese in the U.S.?

Views: 7,036

Posted By nosferatu2083

I totally disagree with the first part. There are...

I totally disagree with the first part. There are attractive girls in every nationality. I know,
because living in a culturally diverse place like Los Angeles, I have seen just about every...

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Study Chinese - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-18T04:52:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 7th March 2006, 07:48 AM

Replies: 61

most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Views: 17,258

Posted By ruxuan

learn the spirits of chinese

"我爱死你了"is the meaning of i love you very much in china.we rarely say it as
"我爱你死了"。"shaolaopo" can be expressed as my younger wife of my wives.

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Chinese Pinyin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-17T04:56:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 7th July 2007, 06:28 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By Xiao Kui

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

I don't have the problem of picking up other foreigner's accents by conversing with them in
Chinese or hearing them converse in Chinese. There isn't enough exposure in those short exchanges
to pick...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 10:24 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By Xiao Kui

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

I wholeheartedly disagree. Also the speakers could be just honoring a language pledge
(http://www. /showthread.php?t=16350&highlight=language+pledge)

If you're Caucasian then...

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Learning Chinese - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-16T05:11:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th September 2004, 07:35 PM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By website

Discrimination

This topic is interesting. I just want to add a couple of things.

1. When I traveled in Paris several years, I found people wanted to speak
French even if they spoke English.

2. Another behavior...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th September 2004, 02:53 PM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By website

English

I'll jump in and add my two cents to this thread.

First of all I think a 5 star hotel that uses English
with foreign visitors in a world-class city like Hong Kong
is different from a store that
uses...

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Chinese Pinyin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-15T04:51:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 17th August 2005, 10:38 AM

Replies: 66

Audio file: please criticise my pronunciation

Views: 6,849

Posted By in_lab

Shibo, thanks for recording the sentence. I know...

Shibo, thanks for recording the sentence. I know you were speaking slowly to make things clear,
but they all sound forced. Why not just say it naturally, and don't worry about getting it right?

I...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 12th August 2005, 01:06 PM

Replies: 66

Audio file: please criticise my pronunciation

Views: 6,849

Posted By in_lab

That sounded good! Once you get the tones down,...

That sounded good! Once you get the tones down, it will be great. It makes me want to try
recording myself. Last time I tried that, I wasn't very successful. I couldn't stand hearing my
voice. :-?

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Chinese language - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-14T05:01:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 9th March 2007, 11:50 AM

Replies: 75

New Antiwave Podcast 人民大会谈4 - “东南西北”宋以朗 (下)

Views: 12,291

Posted By flameproof

Re: New Antiwave Podcast 超级难说6 - 猪年为何不能说猪？

That is very different from Cantonese people, which like fins with no fish.

That type is pretty much the worst type vegetarian you can get. I can't understand the logic
behind it too, if you are a...

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Chinese Character - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-13T00:51:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 4th February 2006, 07:57 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By ala

I like Taiwan Mandarin (Guoyu), which sounds more...

I like Taiwan Mandarin (Guoyu), which sounds more natural and conversational.
Beijing Mandarin (Putonghua) sometimes sounds really pretentious in a communist/proletariat sort
of way. Hard to...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd January 2006, 12:02 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By ala

That's still highly speculative. Cantonese...

That's still highly speculative. Cantonese people generally have very high cheek bones (at least
relative to the rest of the Chinese population), and much of Chinese pop culture comes from Hong...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd January 2006, 06:55 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By ala

the "double" eyelid fold (双眼皮) being...

the "double" eyelid fold (双眼皮) being preferred is not a product of Western civilization
influences, it was preferred a thousand years ago. There are hundreds of millions of Chinese with
the...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd January 2006, 01:09 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By ala

they probably were arguing. :wink: shanghainese...

they probably were arguing. :wink:
shanghainese isn't known for being loud and argy bargy, it's a 吴侬软语 (wunong ruanyu)
dialect, part of the same family as suzhou-hua. in fact, shanghainese today is...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 17th January 2006, 11:53 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By ala

Shanghainese is much faster than Mandarin;...

Shanghainese is much faster than Mandarin; syllable distinction is very muddled in Shanghainese,
it's much more word-based compared to other Chinese dialects. Single syllables by themselves
usually...

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Study Chinese - The difference between 'q' and 'ch' -

2008-12-11T08:45:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
The difference between 'q' and 'ch'
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jiasen -

Hey everyone. This is my first post in these forms, and I would like to commend you all on what a
brilliant forum you have here.

I hope this hasn't already been covered (I did a quick search). I am having problems in
distinguishing between the pronoucing of 'ch' and 'q'. To my ear, ch and q sound both like the
english 'ch' sound. However whenever i try to pronounce words using 'ch', a chinese speaker will
tell me I am saying 'q' instead of 'ch'.

I can pronouce 'c' perfectly, but I'm not sure how that would translate into pronoucing 'ch'. Any
help in this area would be much appreciated.

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zeiss -

The way to pronouce 'ch' is just like 'zh', 'sh' and 'r'. Maybe pronoucing 'r' is easier for you.
It soulds like 'ge' in the word 'garage'. I can't input the phonetic symbol here, which looks like
[3].

The difference between 'q' and 'ch' is similar to that between [i] and [3] in English, I think.

Maybe here is your mistake. Take two chinese words for example, say '七'(seven) and '吃'(eat),
the chinise "pinyin" of which are [qi] and [chi] respectively. We pronounce the 'i' in [qi] just
like the english phonetic symbol 'i', but we DO NOT pronouce the 'i' in [chi]. So, you can just
pronounce the word '吃' [ch].
I hope it's helpful for you.

heifeng -

maybe this will help a bit

gougou -

Also check this table for audio samples.

Lu -

Do you have a tutor? Try asking her/him, they should be able to explain it better than can be done
in writing.
Pinyin q sounds like the English ch; c sounds like ts. Pinyin ch is c but as a retroflex, meaning
that you have to curl your tongue backwards while saying c to produce ch. The same goes for sh, zh
and r: curl tongue backwards.

I hope this helps.

lokki -

I agree that the sinosplice site referenced above is the best place to go to find out.

These can be rather tricky to get right by just listening to how it "sounds". The secret lies in
knowing some of the physical details, like where the tongue goes and in what part of the mouth the
sound is actually formed. THEN practice and listen a lot to get it just right.

Once you have the general idea it can be useful to practice short sentences where you have to
switch between the two tongue positions a lot, like zh, j, sh, q, ch ... in succession (back,
forward, back, forward,...).

mirgcire -

If you feel the roof of your mouth with your tongue you will notice some ridges or bumps just
behind the teeth. This is the aveolar ridge.

When you make the zh, sh, ch and r sounds, your tongue should be just behind the aveolar ridge,
and sound is made by constricting the air between the tip of the tongue and the roof of the mouth.

When you make the j, x, and q sounds the tongue is placed on the aveolar ridge, near the teeth.
The sound is made by restricting the air between the surface of the the tongue and the aveolar
ridge.

The z, c, and s sounds are made with the tonge even farther forward restricting the air between
the teeth and the surface of the tongue.

Here are some good words for practicing tongue position: xian sheng (先生), jin zhang (紧张),
and chu qu (出去).

self-taught-mba -

Down and dirty rule:

1. first understand j and zh since we have very close English equivalents:

j like "jeep"
zh like "German"

2. Then apply to q/ch

q is to j as ch is to zh. the q and j sounds are "sharper"

3. Attend attend universities in Beijing through our service ---shameless plug

Lu -

Quote:

zh like "German"

That's good enough an approximation if you just want to make yourself understood on a trip in
China, but if you want to learn good Chinese, you need to know that zh is not actually pronounced
like g in German.

self-taught-mba -

Yep, that's why it's a "down and dirty" rule.

But it also depends on whose saying it. Some people sound remarkably on, after explaining it that
way. (followed up by a few imitations of their tutor to do the trick for good)

And for all the BLCU'ers I meet that learn it only by imitation, I venture to say that both are
needed (easily understood comparison and imitation).

Anyway, my point was first know the j/zh difference (since they are easier for native english
speakers) then find the q/ch

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Learn Chinese online - Where do i go in China to learn intensively Mandarin? -

2008-12-10T09:01:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Where do i go in China to learn intensively Mandarin?
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Page 1 of 3 1 23 >

pdsola -

I have been studying mandarin with a tutor 3 hours a week for a year now (She is chinese and
speaks english "OK" so ive been getting a good idea of the language). Im intending to go to China
beginings of next year to study the language. With the basic idea i have of the language Id like
to chose the city/program that suits the correct enviroment to learn as fast as posible. I
understand that it depends on my effort and how much time Im gonna dedicate to the program and Im
fully compromised to do what is necesary. I wanna chose a city with the least foreigners to avoid
talking english or spanish as much as posible. I have two years to learn as much as i can and i
want to make them count.

So with these objectives i have in mind wich would be the right place to go? Please tell me about
your experiences and what level and can hope to get from dedicating myself 100% to studying the 2
years.

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Study Chinese in Beijing Affordable Mandarin language courses at BLCU with ChinaUnipath.com.
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littleknight23 -

I am a native Chinese. I have a friend who comes from Sweden, he is studying Chinese in Chengdu.
He says there are only two Swedes, including himself, in his school so he has little chances to
speak Swedish, then both of his English and Chinese are improving quickly.

Many foreigners come to Beijing to study mandarin Chinese. If you do not want to go to a city
where there are too many foreigners, you do need to cancel Beijing from your list.

Shanghai is another large city of China. For the same reason, you had better ignore it.

Xian is another major city of China. It’s also time-honored. There must be few foreigners there.

Guangzhou is also one of the largest cities of China, but I won’t suggest you go there for your
study. As most of the local people speak Cantonese in daily life—even though you can not
understand it! Cantonese is the dialect of Chinese spoken in Canton and neighboring provinces and
in Hong Kong and elsewhere outside China. Most of our Chinese form other provinces can not
understand it. It won’t be helpful for your mandarin Chinese studying.

Suzhou won’t be a nice choice. As there are many foreigners there.

It seems Chengdu will be a better place. The foreigners living/studying in Xian must be more that
those living/studying in Chengdu.

Maybe Jinan is also a nice choice.

Sorry for my poor English. But I am sure that you can get me.

If any other questions you can also contact me at my email and MSN
MSN: littleknight23@hotmail.com
Email: littleknight23@163.com

gougou -

Quote:

If any other questions you can also contact me at my email and MSN

Or preferably, here in the forums, so others can benefit from your responses as well!

simonlaing -

I would go to a small city in the northeast. or a nanjing.

You need a place with good tones, and one with few enough westerners that you really can
concerntrate on the language.
You will need to fight the urge to learn Bar Chinese every night or earn money through part time
English teaching jobs.

Look for an established program with decent rankings from ex students and national level.

Be ready to work hard. "Learning Chinese is a 5 year lesson in patience." At the end of 5 years
you still haven't completely learned Chinese but you know patience.

Roddy is in Dalian, I have heard it is pretty and the people's speech is very standard. Though it
is cold in the winter. If you want a warmer place I advise my city of Nanjing to Study, which
altough having some wind chill in the winter and a bit of humidity in the summer is a fairly mild
city.

If you are truly passionate about it, it won't matter which good university you go to.

have fun,
Simon

Jamoldo -

Dalian is actually pretty nice given the sea breeze, far more mild than Beijing, I would say. But
that's just what I've heard, considering I was only in Dalian for the summer. But it's what people
have told me.

Dalian is fantastic. I'd suggest it for numerous reasons I've posted elsewhere (do a search on my
posts and you'll see it). Chengdu will have a bit of Sichuan-hua, though I've heard great things
about the city. Xi'an is a great place for culture and history.

PHILIP-LI -

I'm quite agree with Jamoldo. Dalian is an romantic city. I have studied here for 5 years.(I'm a
chinese student) Dalian is not too hot in summer and too cold in winter.there're lots of good
universities here.iIf you're interested in Dalian,I will tell you more!

pdsola -

I checked out Dalian and it seems like a very good option. One thing Im curious about though is
the accent, is it like the one from Beijing? cause ive heard of some cities that you will get a
particular accent that isnt common. My tutor is from Tianjin and she only recommends Beijing,
Shanghai and Tianjin. She is very stubborn and every time i mention another city she says
something like "they have a funny accent or its too far away or something of sorts..." I value her
recommendations but i rather take some from people who have studied and lived it.

Another thing, what University or Program you recommend in Dalian? The smaller the group in the
class the better i think, and what are the chances of living with a Chinese family? I think living
with chinese will accelerate my understanding of the language. Please give any suggestions in the
matter, Thanks

Suvlaco -

You might also like to look into Xi'an. It's a relatively large city with very few foreigners.

Having lived there for 5 months, I didn't meet any foreigners that lived there, and I went out to
public bars, clubs, uni's and parks a lot. I met several who were on holiday, but none living
there.

I'm going there to learn Chinese soon, starting uni on March 1 but arriving Dec 12. If you want
any more info let me know.

simonlaing -

The northeast has it's own local dialect language but most of the people I met from there it
doesn't affect their language.
In fact their tones and speaking might be better than beijing and Tianjin because those places
like to add er to the ends of most words.
Xian I have not spent much time but like Sichuan and other western provinces it probably has more
dialect affect on their mandarin speaking. Although as said before capital cities of provinces
this is less of a problem, I still think the northeast is the place to go. Also Beijing and
Shanghai you can be easily distracted by western food and western bar activities.

Good luck,
Simon

muyongshi -

I disagree on Xian. I know a few people that are from Xian and I find them to have one of the
better mandarin accents. Not heavily polluted by the er sound, but definitely no a southern style
of speaking like in Sichuan. And also I have been told that most people in Xian look down on
anyone who uses a dialect because they are "farmers".

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Chinese School - how to speak a chinese text -

2008-12-09T09:01:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
how to speak a chinese text
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xuanthien -

Hello,

I am beginner in chinese. I find a text, a phrase in chinese. I like to know how to speak that
text. How can i do that. Is there any tool supporting that. I am learning online.

Thanks

Thien

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Hero Doug -

If you're able to copy and paste the text http://www.adsotrans.com/ should cover most of your
needs.

Kingsoft Powerword also works fairly well, you can hover over a word to see the translation. I
believe it costs money though.

johnmck -

Try DimSun on www.mandarintools.com

OracleBone -

Quote:

Kingsoft Powerword also works fairly well, you can hover over a word to see the translation. I
believe it costs money though.

I think Lingoes is much much better than Kingsoft Powerword. Besides, Lingoes is free.

http://www.lingoes.cn/zh/translator/download.htm

xuanthien -

Thank you all for quick replies. I have tried Kingsoft, it worked well. I also tried Lingoes but
all in chinese. Could you tell me how to use Lingoes. I will try Mandarintool too.

Thank you

OracleBone -

Quote:

I also tried Lingoes but all in chinese. Could you tell me how to use Lingoes. I will try
Mandarintool too.

1.open the main window of Lingoes.
2.click the link "设置..." in the left frame of the main window, then open the "系统设置"
dialog box.
3.There is a combo box "用户界面语言" where you can choose your favourite language.
4. You can download extra dictionaries from the homepage of Lingoes.
5. You can download Microsoft Simplified Chinese Voice Package, which provides the ability to
pronounce the Chinese characters in Lingoes.
http://www.lingoes.cn/download/tts/M...TTS_51_chs.msi

see other pronouncing plugins:
http://www.lingoes.cn/zh/translator/speech.htm

If you meet some trouble in reading the Chinese webpages of Lingoes, you may install Google
Toolbar which can translate the current webpage in your web browsers.

xuanthien -

Thank you OracleBone. Lingoes worked well.

usbabay -

Try this site. You can post Chinese text and listen to the how it is pronounced.
http://www.languagespace.com

xuanthien -

Thank you Usbabay. It is great , i can hear the sound.

Thien

zozzen -

haha, not sure if that's advert, but www.languagespace.com is really great.

I guess it's oddcast's technology. While the original site has a limitation on usage, the above
link seems to provide unlimited access.

Btw, please correct the typo in the site.

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Chinese Tutor - Non-native Accents in Chinese Speaking Speech -

2008-12-08T08:57:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Non-native Accents in Chinese Speaking Speech
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Yiwan -

All the foreigner characters spoke the same stereotyped accent in the Chinese dramas I grew up
watching. I imagine there should be different accents out there just as there are a variety of
accents in speaking English. I wonder if there are any non-native accent samples available on the
web. Or any volunteer willing to contribute one? Thank you.

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haiying07 -

Maybe you can watch this TV play called : 武林外传 my own swordsman.
You will hear many different dialects . and the tv play is very intersting.

imron -

I think you misunderstand the OP. 武林外传 has many accents of native Chinese people. The OP
is looking for different accents of non-native speakers, when they speak Chinese.

Different accents definitely exist, but I don't know if there are any samples on the web. I used
to be able to pick out Korean, Japanese, Thai, French, German and well as English accents (thanks
to being in classes with people from those nationalities).

heifeng -

If anything, there are no shortage of foreigners speaking Chinese on TV. Even if you don't watch
the dramas, there are always some type of xiangsheng, or cultural programs, travel programs, or
chinese teaching programs that have some foreigner thrown in there somewhere...

Imron, what is that radio program with a french and irish guy...laowai kan zhongguo...something or
rather...Yiwan can just tune into that. Sometimes they even have other 'waiguo pengyou' on the
show as well....

imron -

It was 老外看点. You can listen to it online at this page. They only have an RM stream. Here's
a direct link to the most recent one.

corpose -

actually i like 康熙来了，thats a Taiwan talk show, invite different stars to this program
and i think it's funny and also could help u learn some Chines joke

ZhouNuosi -

Corpose, how can you like those?

my gf watches 康熙来了 all the time (she's from Bj) and whenever I sit next to her and watch
it too, I get this almost irresistable urge to smack something. those noises just drive me crazy

*pling* *ploing* *dong dong dong dong!!!!!* *piiiiiiiiiiiiiw* *tadadadadadaaaaaa*

but the urge disappears when I ty to imagine the guy responsible for those sounds, just pushing
some buttons backstage with a serious face, sipping his coffee while creating some party
atmosphere in the studio. something the creators of Family Guy would probably be able to make a
good parody on.

corpose -

lol,yeah, i admit that their r some weird sounds in that show,but sometimes its fun, such as when
they talk abt some ghost stories, hahaha,anyway, maybe u could ask ur gf to explain the joks in
that show, then u might find it is not 2 bad

liuzhou -

Although I first learned Chinese in Xi'an, I spent most of my early days in Hunan and picked up
the local accent. Even today, a decade later, although I now live in Guangxi, my wife's family
call me Chairman Mao because they swear I speak Putonghua just l like he did. With a strong Hunan
accent.

No, you can't have a tape.

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Learning Mandarin - BOTM November 2007，《雷雨》 - Page 3 -

2008-12-07T09:00:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues > Book of the Month
BOTM November 2007，《雷雨》
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muyongshi -

Shouldn't tell me that....I might just have to quit

Why is it that all "great works" (or just even most authors) seem to be so 悲观 and love writing
these 悲剧?

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studentyoung -

Quote:

Shouldn't tell me that....I might just have to quit

Why is it that all "great works" (or just even most authors) seem to be so 悲观 and love writing
these 悲剧?

I understand how you feel, however, I here have one word for you in “Commemorating Miss Liu
Hezhen” by Luxun (鲁迅《记念刘和珍君》) as below.
真的猛士,敢于直面惨淡的人生,敢于正视淋漓的鲜血。
A true brave man dare face up to blue aspects and bloody scenes in life.

Hope you can feel better now! And cheer up, muyongshi!

Cheers!

imron -

Anyone else still reading this? There's still a week left :） I've just finished reading it now.

muyongshi -

I WILL FINISH...Now that Thanksgiving is over! I'm about a week behind but I should finish in a
week....

rob07 -

I wouldn't call this a "great work". I think it relies too much on cheap tricks for effect, what
with all the incest, death and madness. Still, it was fun I guess.

My favourite character was 鲁贵, he felt the most real. Such a scumbag! 周繁漪 had a very
passive negative presence, which I thought worked well. Gong Li seemed to take over the movie a
bit too much.

Imron, what did you think?

imron -

Quote:

I think it relies too much on cheap tricks for effect, what with all the incest, death and madness.

Yes, some of the story definitely felt like it was straight out of a bad TV soap opera, except
that it predates TV soaps by a few decades.

Quote:

I wouldn't call this a "great work".

It's considered to be one of the better plays written during that period, and to be fair, I think
that as a play it loses something when you read it as opposed to seeing it acted out.

Overall I quite liked it though, despite the fact that it's a tragedy.

I think I agree with you about favourite character, although I also liked 冲. The other
characters just didn't seem to have anything going for them that made you care too much about
them. With 鲁贵, being such a good-for-nothing at least made you despise him.

rob07 -

Yes, I liked 周冲 too. He and to a lesser extent 四凤 were innocents. They had no way of
knowing that events that happened long before they were born meant that they inevitably were going
to end up screwed. This makes the play classic tragedy in the Greek tradition and gives it most of
its narrative force.

This was what I was getting at when I said that 周繁漪 had a very passive negative presence,
which I thought worked well, and that Gong Li seemed to take over the movie a bit too much. Yes,
things haven't worked out that well for you since your step-son decided he didn't want to sleep
with you any more, but why should I care? From a narrative point of view, the evil deeds of the
past are scarier if they are left half veiled in shadow, and the focus is on how they continue to
blight the lives of future generations, rather than on how people who wrecked their lives years
ago continue to have wrecked lives.

I think one of the most interesting things about the play is that, as I understand it, it is one
of the first recognised Chinese literary works to show strong signs of Western influence. I
understand that 曹禺 was heavily influenced by Henrik Ibsen, and I think it is fair to say that
雷雨's roots are ancient Greek. I don't know much about Ibsen, but I think you can see his
influence in some of the other major writers of the period, particularly伤逝 by 魯迅.

muyongshi -

I can see that it has qualities to it and by the end was getting into it despite how painful it
was. The long dialogs are a bit hard to read rather than to see acted out and some of them were
just down right painful as characters like 鲁贵 and 周繁漪 rambled on. Kind of felt that the
father was a bit underdeveloped but I also felt like he was one of the more "real" characters as
well. Just living his life, hurts and all, and just hoping to kind of get old and die. You can
tell he loved his family and was concerned for all of them. 鲁贵 was also really real but you
can't like him for it. I think 周冲 and 四凤 were the embodiment of the entirety of the
tragedy. 周冲 with all the weight of the "sin" on his shoulders countered by 四凤 who was the
pure and innocent. Very interesting read.

chenpv -

Quote:

周冲 with all the weight of the "sin" on his shoulders countered by 四凤 who was the pure and
innocent.

Out of curiosity, what was Zhou Chong's sin and why do you think Sifeng was pure and innocent?

muyongshi -

No I'm not saying that he was guilty and she was innocent what I'm saying is that their characters
took on those roles. Meaning that he was weighed down heavy by depression and a type of guilt and
it represented all the mistakes of the entire family being piled onto him. And well si feng was
the opposite. She made him feel like there was something to live for and she was always portrayed
with kind of this feel of a young, lively girl.

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Pnyin - And you thought biáng was complicated... (more weird characters) -

2008-12-06T09:02:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
And you thought biáng was complicated... (more weird characters)
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naturegirl -

Just came over a site with 22 of the most difficult and/or strange Chinese characters.
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_46e815bb01000bw8.html
The site is in Chinese, but it's fascinating to see what weird characters exist or used to exist.
For example 一 (one) used to be written like this:

Or the original version of 雷 (thunder)

Betcha, the thunder was over before you finished writing it..

The mouth 口 used to be triangular... well but then people ate more and got bigger mouths, or
what?

Nothing left to say here...

But check out the site yourself!

*add* Title explanation: biáng is one of the most complicated Chinese characters still in use
today. There are the biang biang noodles from shanxi (Shaanxi, shǎn xī，陕西) province.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biang_biang_noodles

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yonglin -

Biang2 biang2 noodles are native to Shaanxi （陕西）, not Shanxi （山西）.

It should be noted that there is also a simplified version of the biang2 character in use, i.e.,
were 長 is replaced by 长, 馬 by 马, etc. I found this quite hilarious. I would have thought
乂 on top of 辶 would have been an appropriate simplification....... .

naturegirl -

yonglin wrote

Quote:

Biang2 biang2 noodles are native to Shaanxi （陕西）, not Shanxi （山西）.

Oh, I never noticed that you could also differ their pronunciation in pinyin...

muyongshi -

Well it's not pinyin...it's just the way it was romanized as a place name...

yonglin -

Quote:

Well it's not pinyin...it's just the way it was romanized as a place name...

Fair enough, but if you're omitting the tone and writing "Shanxi", I take for granted that you are
writing in English, rather than in pinyin. Either English or pinyin works for me.

muyongshi -

Quote:

Fair enough, but if you're omitting the tone and writing "Shanxi", I take for granted that you are
writing in English, rather than in pinyin. Either English or pinyin works for me.

I agree with you on that, especially when it comes to place names....

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Chinese Class - Learning Mandarin - how to get beyond survival chinese?? -

2008-12-05T08:55:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Learning Mandarin - how to get beyond survival chinese??
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yong27 -

I'd be interested to know how many people out there learning Mandarin actually broke thru the
intermediate level to become fluent in it.

There seem to be a lot of people in China who have been studying for say 2 years, but can only
speak survival chinese (ie restaurants, taxis, buying things, conversations in broken chinese with
friends).

But to actually become fluent where you can talk about any topic without problems and read the
newspaper seems almost pretty bloody impossible! I don't think it's ever going to end!

What have other people in the same shoes done? Is my choice really only between getting a chinese
girlfriend/boyfriend or going home???

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muyongshi -

Well first of all you are missing an entire level in the process here which is being
conversational. This is the true intermediate level and survival Chinese is more what you
described but that is not an intermediate level. Maybe a low intermediate. There is no way to
really get what is intermediate, beginner, advanced through. Hey, maybe I'm wrong and it is
intermediate that is what you described and what I described is advanced and then you have fluency.

Not trying to argue terminology but from what you describe there is a whole other level that you
have to get to before you can really even begin to think of fluency.

I myself am trying to figure out the fluency question as it seems to be the hardest part....

Where I am at now is what I call a conversational level.... I can watch, listen or read almost
anything and understand 90% of what I am reading. Recognize around 3000+ characters (this is based
on the books I read/study from), can carry on a conversation with friends for hours on any
majority of topic but in many topics still lack the specific vocab. I have also "taught" classes
using Chinese and only Chinese. I probably speak clearly 85% of the time but takes me a good more
time to explain than a native speaker and I get grammar right probably around 90% of the time. I
am still not content and really have no clue where to go from here and maybe it's just a time
issue as 80% of my life is lived in Chinese....

Lu -

Muyongshi, I'm at about that level too... Sometimes I am fooled into believing I'm actually
seriously good at Chinese. But then I realize how far I got with English, and moreover how far
some Taiwanese I know got with English, and then I know I'm nowhere near really good.

Quote:

But to actually become fluent where you can talk about any topic without problems and read the
newspaper seems almost pretty bloody impossible!

It's not. It takes time and dedication, but it can be done. The trick is just to learn all those
words, and practice them, and learn them again after forgetting. And then one day, after years of
hard work, you pick up a newspaper and realize that you can read it. (And a bit later you realise
that most newspapers in Chinese are rubbish.)
Listening and talking a lot helps too, and this is where the Chinese GF comes in, but honestly a
good friend, or just generally someone you are happy to spend a lot of time with, works just as
well.

Quote:

I don't think it's ever going to end!

Well that's true.

Good luck!

yong27 -

Thanks for your comments. Maybe it is just a matter of time and bitter hard work. No magic tricks,
not short cuts. Dammit!

I probably know about 2,500+ characters, and can converse (although not well) on a variety of
topics. It's good to have some goal posts I guess, and be motivated by others in the same boat.
It's amazing how much you can pick up when you've just started learning, but it's the journey
between basic communications and understanding what's going on around you - to actually being
fluent (whatever that means) that is long!!

Seriously though this is one of the hardest things I've ever attempted. Good to know it can be
possible to get there.

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Chinese Tutor - bu qingqu -

2008-12-04T08:50:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
bu qingqu
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rezaf -

someone wrote this sentence to me:顺便求教这句话的意思。 does he want me to explain
something to him or does he want to teach me something?

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rootfool -

顺便求教这句话的意思=btw,plz tell me the meaning of this sentence.

muyongshi -

And just a quick note it should be "qing chu"...

rezaf -

我不喜欢拼音。

colourpear -

“bu qingchu (不清楚）” basically means " I don't know"，“I don't know about the
situation."
For example
Ao you know when Mike will come here ?(Mike几时过来呢？）
B:bu qingchu.(不清楚）

colourpear -

Yeah, the writer wanted you to explain something to him.

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Chinese Character - Need ideas/suggestions for my Chinese name. -

2008-12-03T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Need ideas/suggestions for my Chinese name.
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Aurora -

Hi!

I'm moving to China in a few months time and I will be studying Mandarin. I would love to have a
Chinese name, and the university strongly encourages us to have our names ready for registration
purposes. Therefor I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I don't want to come up with a name by myself (of
course) since I'm a pure novice when it comes to Chinese, and I wouldn't want to get an obscure
name that would con notate something totally different than intended and that I'm not capable to
understand yet.

I googled around the internet and found this wonderful resource that is this forum. And I'm
wondering if there is anyone out there that would be able to help me come up with any suggestions
for the given name in chinese? I would appreciate this immensely, and would love to receive any
ideas/suggestions!

Now; I'm guessing I should describe myself a bit in order to give some direction/suggestion
towards names. I'm a European girl in my early 20's. I was born in the autumn (september), on an
early morning (eventhough I'm a night-tme person nowadays). I would describe myself as a bright,
outgoing and sweet-natured person. I'm very fond of literature, especially classics, and culture.
I hold high standards in every aspect of life, especially morally.

I most highly value elegance and aesthetics (beauty) as well as intelligence and strive for a
harmonious balance between them. Others usually describe me as social, intelligent and
compassionate..

My European given names are very poetic and beautiful (in my opinion, of course) and at the same
time they are classic and "classy", and my mother put a lot of thought in to them which I've
cherished my entire life. I see these names as representative of myself, and this is why I would
like to have a chinese name that has meaning to it rather than a translation of the sounds of my
names..

My favorite flowers are lotuses, orchids and lily's.

My favorite color is a beautiful pale pink, like the color of white peonies that have a dash of
pink in them.

So, that was a bit about me. I hope there is some kind people in this forum that could take a few
minutes to give me suggestions, I would value this immensly and be very grateful!

Thank you in advance to any kind person willing to give me any suggestions!

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cdn_in_bj -

Does it matter to if your Chinese name sounds nothing like your European name? If so, then you can
focus on the meaning of characters. You could start by choosing a Chinese surname.

According to my dictionary, 斐 (fei3) and 郁 (yu4) are both Chinese surnames which also have the
meaning "elegant". 藇 (xu4) is also a surname and has the meaning of "beautiful".

If you decide to choose a different surname, there are several other characters meaning "elegant",
"beautiful" and for different types of flowers so you can still incorporate these meanings in your
Chinese name.

You should also have a look at this thread:

http://www. /showthread.php?t=17390

According to one poster in that thread you should be careful so that your name isn't "too
feminine" and end up sounding too much like a "working girl's name". I'm not sure how she'd know
about that (I certainly don't), but I guess it'd be along the same lines of "stripper names" in
the west.

I know this isnt much, but hopefully it'll give you some ideas.

Aurora -

cdn_in_bj:

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it.

I would prefer for my Chinese name to not sound like my English name, I feel that there would be a
wider array of more suitable choices this way. This is also why I chose not to write out my given
English names. This screenname, Aurora, is actually "only" the name of the amazing dog I grew up
with. ;)

I like all the ideas of surnames that you posted, thank you for taking the time! 斐 (fei3) jumps
out at me, I like the feeling that I get from the sound, and the meaning of it is so nice, more
than I could've hoped for (and I sure wouldn't have found it among all different possible surnames
probably)!

I had no idea about how a too feminine name might be translated into a "working girl" name so this
was a great insight! I've been under the impression that Chinese names tend to not show a gender
specification as is the common case among English names, but hadn't reflected at all regarding how
a too feminine or masculine sounding name would be perceived. Very insightful!

Once again, thank you for this great start towards finding my chinese name!

Lu -

Fei might be a surname, but it seems to be a rare one, I've never seen it before. I think it might
be a better idea if you take it as a given name. You could take Yu as surname, incidentally,
that's the surname of a famous Chinese writer (Yu Dafu).

Chinese names are actually often quite gender-specific, in that boys get names like strong, brave,
honour, and girls names that mean beautiful, graceful, or precious stone.

Quote:

I was born in the autumn (september), on an early morning (eventhough I'm a night-tme person
nowadays)

Too bad 秋生 (qiu1sheng1, born in autumn) is already taken... (name of HK actor Antony Wong).
晨生 (chen2sheng1, born in the early morning) might work though.

Quote:

I most highly value elegance and aesthetics (beauty) as well as intelligence and strive for a
harmonious balance between them.

You could consider 美穎 (mei3ying3, beautiful and intelligent), but that is a bit trite. I don't
think it would be working girl-ish, but it's not very original either.

I'm not a native speaker though, best wait for what they say.

skylee -

I like the -生 (sheng) names. Qiu Sheng (秋生, born in Autumn), 港生 (gang3 sheng1, born in
Hong Kong, Jacky Chan's real name), 京生 (jing1 sheng1, born in Beijing, name of an activist),
安生 / 寧生 (An1 Sheng1 / Ning2 Sheng1, born quiet and peaceful, real names of twin sisters in
HK) are all very nice. And they are basically unisex.

I like 百合 (bai3 he2, lily) as a name.

yonglin -

Quote:

Fei might be a surname, but it seems to be a rare one, I've never seen it before.

My Chinese TA in Canada was surnamed 斐. I think it's a nice name.

reisen -

曦(xi)， is nice, means twilight in the dawn, and also means hope, which sounds the same with
希.

昀”（yun），sounds the same with another word 云（clouds），means the sunshine with
power and vitality, in chinese means 喷薄而出的日光, can anyone give a better translation?

安（an）, means, quiet, calm, safe. a very nice name.

晗（han）, means , the sky will soon bright now.

my favourite words.

Li Yuzuo -

Hi dear, why not try 秋晨（qiu1 chen2), I think it's a very beautiful girl's name.
sounds good, and accordant with the autumn-morning.

skylee -

秋晨（qiu1 chen2) is good.

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Learning Chinese - Help! Pronunciation "coaching" with non-teacher. -

2008-12-02T08:59:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Help! Pronunciation "coaching" with non-teacher.
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shibole -

My wife, who is a native Mandarin speaker but not a language teacher, is trying to help me to
learn better pronunciation. We are making some progress (I think I can finally pronounce ü now)
but the problem is that when I don't pronounce something properly she often seems to have no idea
how to give me advice on how to do it correctly.

I'm using the Integrated Chinese textbook and the descriptions of how to make each sound are
somewhat helpful but a bit too technical with all the phonetic jargon. I find the Wikipedia pinyin
article to be somewhat helpful, and I also find that using one of those flash applets that plays
sounds for all the possible sylables in pinyin to be helpful.

Still I wonder if there is anything my wife could read about how to teach English speakers how to
pronounce Mandarin sounds. Does anyone know any web pages on the subject? It's OK or maybe
preferable if the pages are in Chinese as that's her native language.

Also, is it important to pronounce everything exactly right from the beginning or is it OK to have
sucky pronunciation for a while and get better at it later?

Thanks

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sthubbar -

This is a good question. My opinion is that I'm a huge fan of the Pimsleur method. If a person
wants to pronounce a language well, I would highly discourage them from using written material to
start. The reason is that our eyes have been programmed for over 20 years to pronounce these
symbols in our native language sounds. Now we are being asked to associate new sounds to the same
symbols and I think the challenge is too hard.

I recommend what Pimsleur does. They give you a sound for your ears to hear and then you do your
best to replicate the sound. You also use your ears to judge wether the sound coming from your
mouth sounds similar to the first sound you heard. Only after achieve a basic conversational level
in a language should a person then try to associate written symbols to those sounds. [BTW, this is
the way all of us learned our mother tongue.]

As a final note, we all have accents. What is important to me is whether my accent is
understandable or not. Most of the time it is, other times it is not. It is only on the times that
I'm not understood that I worry about my pronunciation.

Just my opinion.

cdn_in_bj -

Is she coaching you just by telling you what sounds right or not, or is she also showing you how
those sounds are formed? For instance, where should your tongue be when saying "chi" vs "ci"? This
is so natural to her that she doesn't think about it, and might not realize that it could be the
root cause of your difficulties. We western speakers are just not used to forming some of these
sounds, and need to teach our tongues new tricks. It's the same reason why many native Chinese
speakers have trouble with the "r" sound in English. Anyways, I suggest you try this approach with
her, if you haven't already.

Quote:

Also, is it important to pronounce everything exactly right from the beginning or is it OK to have
sucky pronunciation for a while and get better at it later?

I don't think you can expect to have perfect pronounciation from the start. Improvement comes
naturally with practise. As long as your wife can understand what you're saying, I wouldn't worry
too much. And even when you reach the point where you may think that your pronounciation is
dead-on, there will probably still be some subtle differences (subtle to you that is) which in
fact make a big difference to a native speaker.

roddy -

No need to get everything perfect right at the start, but I do strongly recommend that you make
sure you are aware of what your problems are and keep working on fixing them. Otherwise they
become habits, and then you are in all sorts of trouble

Lugubert -

One East-West problem is that many native speakers of Chinese just can't understand the concept of
consonants vs. vowels, but keep thinking in syllables only. When I asked some Chinese to explain
which speakers distinguish between the a vowels in 盘 pán vs. their to me much more closed [æ]
than their extremely open [a] in 旁 páng, one didn't understand my question at all, and another
one told me that "pan and pang are different (words/syllables), you can't compare them." I have
had such a comment from a native speaker of Chinese who had even studied languages in Europe.

mirgcire -

Yes, there is at least one web site that discusses this issue: www.sinosplice.com. As you
mentioned, the hanyu pinyin wikipedia site also has good information on pronunciation. For
practice you might want to try www.pinyinpractice.com.

There are some very specific positions that your mouth needs to form in order to make proper
mandarin sounds. In fact, unless you pay attention to this, your mandarin will be confusing (at
best) to native speakers.

For example to make the ü sound, start by the ee sound (rhymes with bee), then protrude your
lips. The tonge position for ü is the same as ee, but the lip position is different. This is even
more fun when you say words spelled xue. The lips start protruded and get stretched back into a
smile.

BTW, most words with this sound do not have the two little dots. Only lü and nü have the dots,
but all words starting with yu, xu, qu, ju are also pronounced with the same vowel sound.

The most difficult sounds for the mandarin learner are zh, ch, sh, z, c, s, j, q, x and r. For zh,
ch, sh and r, the sound is made between the tip of the tongue and the roof of the mouth. For j, q,
and x, the sound is made between the aveolar ridge and the surface of the tongue. The aveolar
ridge are those little bumps right above the teeth. You can get feel for the difference is by
comparing the english words "shirt" and "sheet", but the tongue is farther back with the mandarin
sh, and more forward with the mandarin x.

I guess the point I am trying to illustrate is that mandarin speakers have no idea about this.
They learned at such an early age that it would not have been helpful anyway. It really takes a
lot of attention to understand the relationship between the shape of your mouth and the sound it
makes. This is what speech therapists get paid big bucks for. To better understand how difficult
it is try explaining to a mandarin speaker how to pronounce "usually".

shibole -

Thanks for all the advice so far!

Quote:

If a person wants to pronounce a language well, I would highly discourage them from using written
material to start.

This seems to go against the whole integrated language learning approach though, or am I wrong? I
am using an integrated textbook and think this is the way to go.

Quote:

As a final note, we all have accents. What is important to me is whether my accent is
understandable or not. Most of the time it is, other times it is not. It is only on the times that
I'm not understood that I worry about my pronunciation.

I still have some cases where I'm not understood. I have been trying to keep track of which sounds
I have trouble with, but that does require that I write them down in pinyin.

Quote:

Is she coaching you just by telling you what sounds right or not, or is she also showing you how
those sounds are formed? For instance, where should your tongue be when saying "chi" vs "ci"?

She's sort of trying to show me, and I'm also trying to read written descriptions in the textbook
on how sounds are formed, but it's kind of difficult for her to show me. A guess an x-ray machine
would come in handy here....

Quote:

make sure you are aware of what your problems are and keep working on fixing them. Otherwise they
become habits, and then you are in all sorts of trouble

That's what I'm worried about, basically.

Quote:

One East-West problem is that many native speakers of Chinese just can't understand the concept of
consonants vs. vowels, but keep thinking in syllables only.

Actually I've noticed this already. I'd say that it extends to tone as well. Sometimes I say
something wrong like "míng" but she can't tell if I'm getting the consonant, vowel, or tone
wrong. In some cases she first says it's the vowel, then says it's the tone. Also, with these
compound vowels it often sounds like more than one sylable to me, and then I end up trying to
speak it in a way that sounds like two sylables to her even if I'm sure I'm sluring the vowels
together.

Maybe I should try to practice pronunciation for a while without looking at any pinyin just to
make sure that isn't causing confusion, but I need to be able to read how to pronounce characters
that I look up in the dictionary....

roddy -

I would ignore advice to avoid written material (ie pinyin in this case). Yes, you do need to
learn to associate old letters with new sounds, but that's a very minor issue compared to getting
your ears to hear those new sounds and your tongue and associated paraphernalia to make them.
Obviously don't go around pronouncing x as ecks though. Learn the rules of pinyin pronunciation
and that's a tool that will stand you in good stead.

I also suspect that new learners who don't use pinyin are going to have issues distinguishing
sounds and get themselves in an almighty mess if they don't have a teacher sitting on top of them
every time they open their mouths. There's a stage where you can't distinguish new sounds, as we
tend to funnel them into the sounds we already know - that's when you need something written down
to show you that even if you can't hear it, they're different.

As for something practical for you and your wife to do - download Audacity or a similar tool and
spend some time recording yourself and your wife saying a few syllables and compare them. Model
yourself on your wife and see how close you can get, and if there's a problem you can break the
syllable down and see where the problem is.

Textbooks - the only one I can personally recommend is this one, which you'd probably need to
order from China. Plus points is that it goes through basic pronunciation step by step, then tone
patterns, then onto intonation, sentence stress, etc, and there are clear explanations of what
your tongue, etc, should be doing at each point. Minuses are that it's all in Chinese, so perhaps
more useful for your wife than yourself at the moment, and the tapes aren't great quality. It was
recommended two years ago on here by Carlo, and I haven't seen anything better yet - but that said
I haven't looked.

I think maybe hoping your wife will be able to tell you what you are doing wrong is a bit
ambitious. It's hard enough for an untrained native speaker to explain how to make the right
sounds. Being able to hear what is going wrong is a whole different level of expertise, and the
only people I've met able to do it even on a simple level have had proper linguistics training.
That said, if you can find someone who can do it it's fantastic - one teacher I'm working with at
the moment seems to have a better idea of what my tongue is up to than I do.

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

Yes, there is at least one web site that discusses this issue: www.sinosplice.com

Was the guy who runs that site (John) on TV a week ago? I'm pretty sure I saw him doing some sort
of English/Chinese "rap" about "the Jing" (Beijing). It was so cheesy that I had to change the
channel. But I must admit that his spoken Mandarin is really good.

Lu -

Perhaps you could try and hire a teacher/tutor for a while, to set your pronounciation straight.
Like some other posters noted, it's really hard to explain how you pronounce your native language,
you just do it. TxFL teachers are trained to teach people their native language. Spouses are good
for practicing your language, but not necessarity good teachers.

Good luck!

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Free Chinese Lesson - Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in

2008-11-23T08:52:00.001-08:00

> Wikis > Guide to Chinese > Guide for Formatting Wiki Articles in
-Mandarin School in China.
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roddy -

Very good. Probably worth pointing out that this isn't compulsory - it's a guide, but if anyone
wants to just type up stuff in any format that's still good - we can get one of our Wiki Editors
to tidy it up later.

muyongshi -

Obviously we can't force people to do it but it sure helps if things look uniform...

But those of us who are anal about it can just tidy up as it bugs us!

(I know I need )

gato -

You can use [noparse][/noparse] to force the forum software to show the vbCode.

By the way, there are more extensive Wiki formatting codes available that we might consider using
at some point. See NuWiki Syntax Guide for how to add table of content and section links to your
article.

muyongshi -

I knew there was a way but it has been 2 years since I last actively did html encoding. Need to
refresh myself!

If we get to the point where we need them we can definitely use them...my main concern is
uniformity and just the readability of it.

gato -

Oh, if you use the [h1], [h2], ..., [h7] heading formatting code, a table of content is
automatically created once you have more than 4 headings. The NuWiki syntax guide has more details.

See the new Dictionaries article using the heading codes.

Want to revise the formatting guide to take account of this?

roddy -

Yep, that's what I did here. The style on that box might need tweaking though . . .

muyongshi -

But they look so ugly! We need to start on a lower heading number then because starting with h1 is
just to large. h2 is even pushing it!

roddy -

Hit edit on the article I did above and see how that works, using the equals sign to format
headings. To be honest I can't remember how I did it, but it seems to have auto-generated the
content box ok.

muyongshi -

That's what I'm doing now and just playing around with it now. If the largest we use is h2 then it
will be fine I think (h2 directly corresponds to ==) but now the problem is that it puts huge gaps
in between the headings unless you put them on the same line which that just creates hassle. I
guess it will have to do as it is the most convenient way to create these tables...

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Chinese Mandarin - Historical Vietnamese Phonology? / Japanese pre-War newspaper articles? -

2008-11-22T09:13:00.001-08:00

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Historical Vietnamese Phonology? / Japanese pre-War newspaper articles?
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Xi'Er Dun -

Are there any online sources with information of Historical Vietnamese Phonology, ie. there must
have been proto-Vietnamese/archaic-Vietnamese/old-Vietnamese,/Ancient Vietnamese/Middle Vietnamese
and pre-Modern Vietnamese languages surely.
One book on Chinese Linguistics, mentions the Vietnamese Language in a chapter about
Sino-Vietnamese borrowings, and states that the Vietnamese Language had initial consonant
combinations like Thai as late as the arrival of the first Jesuits in the 1500's, and so suggests
that the Vietnamese Language is not Austro-Asiatic after all but closer to Thai, Hmong, Miao and
other Hill Tribe languages. If Alexandre de Rhodes designed the first orthography for Quốc
Ngữ to write Vietnamese, then wouldn't the writing system show some reference to historical
Vietnamese pronunciation, unless these have been updated since in orthographic reforms?
This is still all in debate of course.

Something unrelated to the topic, but want to get help with from this forum, I have tried
searching the internet for literally hours looking for Historical Japanese Newspaper Articles,
those from the pre-war eras like the Meiji 明治, Taishō 太正 and Shōwa 昭和 up until 1945.
So I am looking for an online archive collection of *scanned* newspaper articles by Japanese
newspapers dating from 1868 at the very earliest up until strictly 1945 at the latest. I
particularly request scanned articles a I have found the electronic ones, if they are from
historical publications use some Kanji 漢字 that are not included JIS or EUC charatcer sets and
so show code glitches where ther are meant to be, so I think directly scanned publications are the
way to go. like to read Japanese publications that present pre-War Kanji 漢字usage like the
Kyūjitai 舊字體 [like 國　for 国, 讀　for 読, etc.] and pre-War Kana 仮名 orthography
Rekishi Teki Kana Zukai 歴史仮名圖解 [like くわう　for こう, ゑぞ　for えぞ,
etc.].

I know that hardly anyone relies to any of my other posts for reasons I can imagine, but if
someone can link me through to sources with information that I would like on the two major topics
of this post, then that would be great.

希爾頓從

感恩伴
cảm ơn bạn

如何も有り難う御座い升

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furyou_gaijin -

Quote:

Something unrelated to the topic, but want to get help with from this forum, I have tried
searching the internet for literally hours looking for Historical Japanese Newspaper Articles,
those from the pre-war eras like the Meiji 明治, Taishō 太正 and Shōwa 昭和 up until 1945.
So I am looking for an online archive collection of *scanned* newspaper articles by Japanese
newspapers dating from 1868 at the very earliest up until strictly 1945 at the latest.

Are you looking for something like this:

http://www.lib.kobe-u.ac.jp/directory/sinbun/

or like this:

http://www.um.u-tokyo.ac.jp/cgi-bin/...=&note=&image=

I must have misunderstood your original request because these are some results of a 2 sec Google
search, as opposed to 'literally hours'... It surely can't be that simple?!

I must admit that I have followed your earlier posts with polite amusement... The breadth of your
interests is truly astonishing. Care to elaborate on the extent to which you have mastered the
modern spoken Japanese and Chinese?

skylee -

Quote:

Taishō 太正

I think it is 大正.

nnt -

The Alexandre de Rhodes' dictionary can be found here :
http://purl.pt/961/1/

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Chinese Online Class - Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?! - Page 3 -

2008-11-21T08:54:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Society
Is it that hard for me to find a foreign boyfriend?!
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johnmck -

I suspect the reason why foreign men are not so interested in long term relationships is because
most of them only plan to be in China for a few months to a year, so a long term relationship is
not possible. This is similar to yourself, you plan to go to live in the US next year. Don't you
think it is a little unfair to drag a man into a long term relationship when you already intend to
leave him in the short term?

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owshawng -

"Asian girls are in demand in America. Caucasian guy's can't get enough asian girls"

If you could see how overweight and sloppy the average caucasian women in the US is outside of LA
or New York you would understand. I see lots of caucasian men with hispanic women too. When my
wife was 6 months pregnant she was still smaller then most caucasian women in the suburbs are.
(yes my wife is asian) And that was after she gained 25 pounds

I said average, not all caucasian women so please do not flame me for this. To verify this comment
watch a US based talk show and look at the audience. I would say most women are at least 30 pounds
overweight, the men even more. The average adult American, not man, but person is 190 pounds(85
kilos).

reisen -

haha, I am also not thin..... maybe 60kg or like that.
I am never like a traditonal chinese girl...

owshawng -

In America 60kg is thin, unless you are under 5ft. We have been supersized.

CheukMo -

Quote:

In America 60kg is thin, unless you are under 5ft. We have been supersized.

Absolutely true!

卓武

gato -

Quote:

In America 60kg is thin, unless you are under 5ft. We have been supersized

Not really true, unless you are in one of the Red States, where you chicken fry everything.

owshawng -

gato, where in the US are you? Most of the women in New Jersey are definitely at least 30 pounds
overweight, same goes for Portland, Oregon, and Seattle. All are blue areas. And I don't mean 30
pounds over being built like a model, but 30 pounds from the top of a healthy weight range for
their height. I would say at least 25% of the women in New Jersey outweigh me, and I'm 180 lbs/82
kilos. The women in Boston and New York are a lot smaller, but go out into the suburbs and hope
they don't step on your foot.

gato -

I guess you should take the PATH and spend your weekends in Manhattan, then. Hang out in Central
Park or Washington Square and get your fix.

owshawng -

gato, go to a mall in the suburbs of jersey and you'll see. I noticed the same thing when I was
living in Australia, the further away from the heart of the city's business district you go, the
heavier the people become.

Actually I took the PATH in today. Amazing how much thinner people are in the gold coast and the
city.

gato -

It's because they drive everywhere instead of walking like real cityfolks. I read somewhere that
the average Manhattanite walks two, three miles a day.

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Learn Chinese online - BLCU Feb 2008-contact each other - Page 3 -

2008-11-20T08:44:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
BLCU Feb 2008-contact each other
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franksank -

Zoe:No I have not got the acceptance letter.I have applied for the Long term course which is about
eight months. still waiting for the acceptance letter.Looks as if its too early for them to start
processing the 2008 applications.I am getting impatient too.

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peahead -

marisa: that's true, and that's why i suppose we'll have to get there early and tell them which
room we'll like...i read around, and people who arrive there only a few days earlier normally
doesn't get a good room.

Salmonax -

I'm also planning on going to BLCU this spring for a semester, although I'm not 100 percent sure.

Looks like you guys are already applying. Do you really need to apply this early?

peahead -

salmonax: i'm not sure man, but knowing china, i guess it's better off applying little early than
late?

franksank -

salmonax:yes,peahead is correct.it takes a long time for them to process your application.

Marisa -

peahead: What time do you think is the best to arrive? Maybe a week before the program start?

zoelowey -

Good news. I called Admissions Office last night, and they will be sending out the acceptance
letter next week. I hope to see you all soon. Oh, by the way, what is the process in applying for
a dorm? Is there paperwork to be filled out now, or is it when we get there?

Salmonax -

I've been thinking about the dorm situation too. I've read elsewhere on this form that its
generally first come first serve and you have to wait until you are actually there to get a room.
So I have been thinking about arriving a week or so early and just staying at a hostel or
something until I figure the dorms out or find other accommodation's.

Anyway any tips about this process would be appreciated.

franksank -

I had asked the administrative department and they too said the same thing.first come first serve
basis.

agentjeff -

hey everyone, i am also planning to attend BLCU feb 08. hopefully the acceptance letters will be
sent out next week like someone mentioned. Does anyone know if most people that apply are
accepted. There aren't many requirements so i figure most will get accepted.

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Chinese Tutor - 疑 -

2008-11-19T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
疑
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82riceballs -

I was wondering if there are any characters that follow the patterns:

疑: 擬礙凝
廣: 礦曠擴爌
方 and the strange thing on right-top: 旗旅施
木 and the three-sided square: 櫃框

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naturegirl -

Why don't I see a pattern?

82riceballs -

all of the characters in each row have the same radical (either left or right)

sorry if i didn't explain well

naturegirl -

I see. Don't all characters follow this pattern
口：喝叫哈呵唱吧叹
言：说话谚语识认论
走：越起趋趁超赵趣
昔：惜错措借
虑虚虎虐虔
偷喻愈愉谕渝
etc. etc

But there is a difference between radical (mostly on the left side) and the other thing on the
right side, that gives the pronunciation (I forgot how it's called...)

82riceballs -

i'm asking whether there are any words that have either the same radical or sound radical as those
listed.

e.g. i just discovered that 族 also fits into the third pattern.

amego -

Hi erm so you want more?

薿懝儗譺嶷觺

放旆旂旜旄旋旍旌旎旒旖旛 Most gotta do with flags.

鄺壙纊穬鑛儣懬櫎

樞

Most of these words are rather obscure and trust me u wont run into them often but im glad you're
interested. Jiayou!

82riceballs -

thanks!

amego -

Welcome

Lu -

For characters with the same radical, take a look in pretty much every dictionary, they usually
list characters by radical.
For characters with the same component on the right (or anywhere else), have a look at
zhongwen.com. Enjoy!

82riceballs -

謝謝！

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Chinese Character - Chinese for the next year....I hope so. -

2008-11-18T09:11:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Chinese for the next year....I hope so.
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Alvinho -

I'm aiming at learning Chinese mandarin next year.....until next year's march I gotta enhance both
English and Spanish......after that I want to study another language along with Chinese but I
haven't decided which one will be yet....

However, about Chinese firstly I'd like to know some basic sentesies used in everyday life......it
would be nice to start off the language with those basic tips...

If there's someone who's interested in helping me I'd be glad......no matter if either there are
chinese or foreign people who master the language.

My MSN is geodorneles@yahoo.com for those who are keen on chatting with me....

Xie xie

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Study Chinese - Best way to get a HSK Level 3 - Page 2 -

2008-11-17T08:52:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Best way to get a HSK Level 3
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

kudra -

Thanks gato. Let me say it again:

the 90% is the percentile rank relative to the population of test takers, i.e. a score better than
90% of the other test takers in some "standard population" of test takers.

It is not obvious what percent of the answers need to be correct to get a particular "scaled
score", or what I called a "normalized score." This means that even consistently getting say 60%
right on a certain section on practice test taken under realistic conditions means that you still
don't know what this means in terms of a scaled score.

Hence the call for data so we could figure out the conversion with real data.

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Learning Chinese - 以死相争= ??? -

2008-11-16T08:57:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
以死相争= ???
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wrbt -

I'm obviously missing something here. 以死相争 is from an essay in Chinese voices project, the
entire sentence being:

如果遇到没良心的包工头，有时还要以死相争，才能拿到辛苦钱

Thanks in advance!

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rootfool -

以死相争=fight for sth by self-slaughter.
In here it means "they claim to the boss:if he don't give them the salary,they will kill
themselves."

hope it helps.

skylee -

The phrase means "fight like their lives depend on it", to the extent of threatening to kill
themselves to get what they want.

littleknight23 -

Sorry, 以死相争 does not mean …they will kill themselves
It means they will fight for their salary even if lost their lives
In fact, Chinese people hardly use self-destruction when the get unfair treatment, they usually
以死相争，it means they may kill the boss
And another related phrase is同归于尽 which means perish together
By the way, I am a native Chinese speaker and I work as a copywriter, so maybe my English is poor,
but my Chinese always are excellent

Please correct my sentence while you find the mistakes in it, I will appreciate you a lot

wrbt -

Thanks for the help all. I knew the first part but didn't know the xiang zheng and the dictionary
definition just didn't fit to make sense of it to me. All is clear now, much appreciated. Also:

Please correct my sentence while you find the mistakes in it

Use the plural "sentences" and adjust related references, also use "if" or "when" as the
conditional:
Please correct my sentences when you find mistakes in them
or
Please correct my sentences if you find mistakes in them

I will appreciate you a lot
For expressing appreciation in this case you'll want to reference the act of correcting instead of
the person:

I would appreciate it
much appreciated

It also might sound more natural at the beginning "I would appreciate it if...."

rootfool -

Quote:

Sorry, 以死相争 does not mean …they will kill themselves
It means they will fight for their salary even if lost their lives

see it here

Quote:

they usually 以死相争，it means they may kill the boss

I had never heard any news about "农民工 killed their boss",and I don't know what key words to
choose to find news about this in "baidu".

In my opinion,
以死相争 equals 以死相逼 but not 拼死相争 in this sentence.
Maybe I'm wrong,it's just a personal thought.

littleknight23 -

wrbt, thanks for your correcting

rootfool, I agree with you to a certain extent, but how to say, in my opinion, it seems that
以死相争 here means both "以死相逼, namely kill themselves for the salary" and "may kill
the boss and perish together". it depends on the situation

In fact, both "kill themselves" and "kill the boss" has happend in China.

fishyqs -

“以死相争”is a idiom, it means one fighting for something at all cost. So, maybe kill
oneself, maybe kill the boss, and do something other may have serious consequences .

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Speak Chinese - Everything is making me sick! - Page 2 -

2008-11-15T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
Everything is making me sick!
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Eden7 -

Beef,potato,and a can of beer are probably what you need right now.

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Rincewind -

Sounds like food poisoning to me too. (though I'm not a doctor either). Allot of people get
stomach upsets when they first come to china. Back home your resistant to most of the local bugs.
When you come here your body get hit by new bacteria and you get sick very easily.

Did you use tap water to brush your teeth? That's one that is easy to forget. Avoid cold foods
like salad and cold noodles noodles. Don't take ice in your drinks. Take loads of water with some
salt an sugar in it. As mentioned above, yogurt and milk are good (though the Chinese doctors will
tell you to avoid them, westerners are used to milks and it's actually good for settling us.)

If you're still sick today, go to the hospital. They'll give you a jag that will cut down on the
nausea and let you eat properly. They did that for me when I eat some dodgy squid last year.

optical -

Thanks for all the replies and insights. I took your advice here and have been forcing myself to
drink a lot of water (not ridiculous amounts, but a lot more than I'm used to drinking back in my
old hometown of Seattle) and focus on dry foods. And sure enough, it one day just suddenly
stopped. It was probably a combination of lack of water, and just needing to get used to the food
here, and possibly something I ate on the airplane but honestly who knows.

I have read a lot about avoiding food stalls and while sometimes the smell is disturbingly
tempting I have made myself avoid them just for precautionary sake.

Now if somebody could tell me what a pink light in a "barber shop" means then I'll be totally set.

Jekai -

Quote:

I have a question regarding this bacteria. Does this "Chinese" bacteria, once you get it inside
your stomach, stays there forever or does it go out when you're back in your home country?

I'm not a doctor (like everyone else!) but I think there's some truth to this. When I arrived in
Beijing for the first time last year, I was getting cramps and all the fun stuff for a week or
two. I've been back in Beijing the last four days and I feel perfectly fine. Though maybe the
cramps will stary back later after some resturant visits? Eep, I hope not.

I would bet money on airline food being part of the problem, too. EVERY time I eat a meal on a
flight, I don't even want to look at food for the better part of the day.

Also, as for the tap water, I noticed the water in my hotel was crystal clear, so I did some
searching, and aparrently as of a few months ago, they decided that Beijing tap water is safe to
drink. That's no gaurantee that the pipes the water passes through will keep it clean, but if it
seems clean, it just might be.

heifeng -

So I was debating where to put this post b/c its kinda nasty, but I think it is worth sharing to
prevent forum members the same problem and I know that in reflection this has happened to me more
than once...and now I know what was going on...

Basically prior to Chinese NY when everything was closed, I stocked on the remnants of food left
at wumei. Previously I had discovered they have some really big, yummy mantou that are white with
purple speckles (this is important later on).

Anyway, during one of the those chu-something days I think I just chowed down on some mantou for
dinner and breakfast, maybe a bowl of fangbianmian too. The next day I slowly began to feel quite
ill, but not the standard flu or food poisening ill feeling..it just slowly crept up. Anyway,
after about 1-2 days of just not feeling quite 'right'. By day 3 the vomiting began and lasted
until absolutely nothing was left...so I thought...and then I started to have massive chest pain
like someone was punching me. Then, several fish-ball sized chunks were literally launched. I took
note of this b/c usually vomit is at least partially digested (at least everything else was).
Anyway I did take a look at this huge chunks and just couldn't figure out what had caused it until
I noticed those purple speckles. Anyway, I eventually realized that this was all from the mantou
and my failure to 1. eat slowly and chew carefully (general bad habit) and 2. to actually eat the
mantou with something else like veggies I suppose...bite of mantou...bite of 'cai'...not just lets
just eat a mantou or two and call it quits for dinner, and 3, I dunno if drinking water and actual
mantou-expansion had anything to do with this, but maybe the fangbianmian soup didn't help
matters. Anyway, I felt better right away, but after realizing what happend I reflected back on
other occasions when I would just feel ill in China, which took me back exactly to when I use to
eat a ton of mantou at a certain office. Anyway, I have come to the conclusion, that mantou are
dense lil' badboys of the bread kingdom, so don't just chow down on them...eat them very slowly
and carefully.

Anyway, hope this over share saves someone else from mantou-induced discomfort since it doesn't
seem like a likely culprit, but apparently can still cause problems.

anonymoose -

So let me get this straight, you saw the same piece of mantou again 3 days after eating it?

and

heifeng -

well, to be exact the timeline and more thrilling details were like this:

day 1. mantou or 2 for dinner.
day 2. mantou and fangbian mian for lunch. few hrs later feeling a bit odd. Oh well, Dumplings for
dinner....
day 3. Not feeling great. oh well, hot pot for dinner. Ignore the pain and attempt to eat.
day 4. now I'm really feeling like crap...ughhhhhh...vomitting for 7 hours and then when
absolutely nothing was left and dry heaving and then the huge mantou chunks came up and then
everything was fine (just like a cat coughing up a fur ball!!).
day 5-forever onward. Chinese friends just laugh at me for just eating several mantou with
virtually nothing else for a meal and tell me not to do that again....and continue to chuckle
However, I will now be staying away from mantou.

roddy -

Quote:

day 5-forever onward. Chinese friends just laugh at me for just eating several mantou with
virtually nothing else for a meal and tell me not to do that again....and continue to chuckle

Now Chinese friends + the Internet. . .

heifeng -

yeah, I know. Consider it a lesson learned though!

gougou -

Actually the best breakfast I ever had was plain mantous with a handful of peanuts. Then again,
that was during a rainstorm in a 土楼 in Fujian province, so I had plenty of time to chew!

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Learning Mandarin - Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1 - Page 11 -

2008-11-14T08:58:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1
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Page 11 of 11 First < 910 11

renzhe -

Quote:

I would like to get a Hanzi list to use in anki whith 3000 basic Hanzi, who can provide one?

There is a file for mnemosyne which includes all characters and words from HSK (covers around 9000
words using 2900 characters) and on top of that has the top 2000 characters sorted by frequency.
Look on their webpage.

Anki can load mnemosyne databases, so you can use that -- import it and save it from Anki. If you
do this, please remember to send the resulting file to the Anki developers, so other people can
benefit from it.

If that doesn't work for some reason, I posted the exact same data here on the forum: link. I'm
pretty sure that anki should be able to import TSV files.

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KONDDE -

@renzhe

TANKS! TANKS A LOT!

It something like that I was looking for, you was very nice to share this item for us! TKS

but,

In fact after I finished thwe last post I´d written here, I choose to folow KATZUMOTO-SAN steps,
in fact this man learned over www.zhongwen.com instead of Reisig book, in his site he explain on
his FAQ. He didn´t used Heisig Books but he highly recomend it for japanese learners. He learned
+4230 Hanzi (simplified and Traditional) at the same from this site and he explained why he did on
this way.

And now I gap the katzu-san essence.

What we need to do is in fact to learn the alfabect, buit a alfabect far from dificult to learn
than nine.

What I can recomend for the beginners like me is to learn at least 3000 basic or comom caracters,
but just hanzi, forgive about words, pinyin, tranlation, etc. Focus on get these chars. as quicly
possible. If you are learning it alone or take classes one or twice per week, stay focus on it.
And try to learn tarditional and simplified forms, because to read interesting material avaliable
on net you´ll see how is dificult to find a manga in S-form.

BTW

I just discovered that don´t need Heisig book for now.. at least for now.
To wait so many months without learn a simple alphabect?!?
Is too time..and.. keep on yours mp3 headphones listening to target language (JAPANSE< CHINESE,
KOREAN)doesn´t matter what happen

renzhe -

KONDDE,

this is one approach to learning Chinese that people use, but not the only one.

While I personally advocate good amounts of rote memorisation in the beginning stages of learning
Chinese, I also think that learning words, grammar, pronunciation etc. is important, and should
supplement this effort. This actually helps the character learning process.

Learning 3000-4000 characters without any other language aspects is difficult and you'll forget
many of them rather soon unless you fit them into a language context (words, sentences,
pronunciation, etc.)

This is why I would encourage you to go ahead and learn the common characters like you plan, but
also encourage you to follow a good textbook and get some spoken language experience. This will
make the characters stick much better, and make you UNDERSTAND them much better.

Quote:

What I can recomend for the beginners like me is to learn at least 3000 basic or comom caracters,
but just hanzi, forgive about words, pinyin, tranlation, etc. Focus on get these chars. as quicly
possible. If you are learning it alone or take classes one or twice per week, stay focus on it.
And try to learn tarditional and simplified forms, because to read interesting material avaliable
on net you´ll see how is dificult to find a manga in S-form.

Learning once or twice a week is a waste of time if you want to memorise 3000 characters quickly.
Twice per day is some sort of minimum, more is better, spaced out throughout the day.

It is also my experience that learning both the traditional and simplified characters is
detrimental. Once you master one set and the vocabulary that is built on these characters, you'll
be able to read the other set with very little extra effort, because the context (words, phrases,
grammar) and the make-up of the characters (the parts they consist of) will give you huge hints in
the vast majority of cases.

No fluent Chinese speaker I've met has learned both sets at once. They could all read both, and
all it took is some reading. Concentrate on one set, 3000+ characters is difficult enough.

renzhe -

I'd also add that learning Hanzi for Chinese is different than learning Kanji for Japanese, as the
characters are an integral part of the language in a much stronger way than they are in Japanese.

It's far more than an alphabet, and in fact learning pronunciations will help the memorisation
effort because most characters have a strong phonetic component that makes sense in Chinese, but
not in Japanese.

KONDDE -

@renzhe

Many tks for the tips,

In fact the Hanzi and Kanji are the same but in few exceptions. What I mean what I´m looking for
is to learn this, just the characters, I know it is very complicated to learn just his and so
focus on it, but while I´m studying the chars.(Hanzi S and T) I do my listening drills and try to
read some exercices books, I used to do 2 classes per month with a native teacher too.

But is very confortable when you know all the basic or odds charachters, after that to learn
sentences is a step too closet.

About T-form I just learn to recognise them, just it. Trying to learn 25-50 chars. per day is a
good number to attemp this in a fews months, what dou you gues?

Remember that: Kanji, Hanzi and Hanja are all the same, I know that theirs uses is far from
diferent and there are few exceptions to some chars. kind.

The process is:
1) to learn all 3000+ odds chars. using the Heisig mmemo method.

2) while you listening to target language do some exrcices. etc etc. the main focus I will stress
on chars.

BTW´: I´m in 350-400 chars at this moment. There are no much time to goal the 3000+ I hope.

Please fell free to exchange any idea, my mother thongue is not english is brazilian portuguese
instead, sometimes I cannot express my self correctly, me sorry,

TKS!

renzhe -

KONDDE,

you are right that the characters used in China, Korea, Japan, and Taiwan/Hong Kong are variations
on the same characters. The meaning is mostly the same too (though there are also some variations
in meaning).

But, for example, in Japanese, they are read using Japanese language. They were imported from
China and grafted onto the Japanese language over generations. Each character has 3 different
pronunciations, and at least two of them lose much of the phonetic part of the Chinese character.

The connection between the language (which can be written completely in hiragana or katakana) and
the characters is much weaker than in Chinese. You learn the Japanese language (using katakana and
hiragana), and then you learn how to write some common words using kanji instead, by memorising a
couple of thousand of them.

In Chinese, the characters basically ARE the language. That's the difference I was talking about.

You can still do the Heisig thingy and some people do, but I wouldn't just assume that the best
method for learning Japanese (whatever it might be) will be the same as the best method for
learning Chinese, because of issues like these. That, and the fact that the number of characters
commonly used in Chinese is far greater than in Japanese or Korean.

Quote:

But is very confortable when you know all the basic or odds charachters, after that to learn
sentences is a step too closet.

I agree that it's nice to have a buffer of characters you've memorised and far easier to learn
words and get better at reading that way. I do this too, but I'd suggest also learning other
things at the same time. Whatever you do, and whichever method you apply, you'll be learning
characters as long as you live, even native speakers do. So concentrate on getting enough to get
you started, give you exposure to written material, help you with following TV shows, etc.

Learning things in different context really helps with memorisation. You can get this context from
hearing the words, learning vocabulary, seeing the words in context, etc.

Quote:

Please fell free to exchange any idea, my mother thongue is not english is brazilian instead,
sometimes I cannot express my self correctly, me sorry

You're doing fine, no worries. Many people on this board don't speak English as their mother
tongue.

Quote:

1) to learn all 3000+ odds chars. using the Heisig mmemo method.

I've been studying chars intensively, and I figure it will take me about 2 years to get there. I
use an SRS program, have good memory, and do it daily. I also use mnemonics (similar to the ones
Heisig uses) for some more difficult characters. I'm at about 2500, but I'm learning vocabulary
and pronunciation at the same time too.

My point is -- you can learn so much more in this time. You can go from very basic stuff to
watching whole TV shows.

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Learn Chinese - Chinese character translation -

2008-11-13T08:57:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Chinese character translation
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hafiz -

Hello

I am not chinese and have no idea where to begin to read chinese.
I have attached a picture of three words that i have been given as part of a competition they are
the key to the next clues.
i was wondering if any body knows what they mean
any help would be greatly appreciated
thank you

sorry about the poor picture quality

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skylee -

There are actually 4 chinese characters - 第一次愛, meaning first love.

You may however wish to note that, instead of what is shown in the picture, the term for first
love in Chinese is 初戀.

hafiz -

so the whole thing means first love

thank you very much

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Learn Chinese - ZDT 0.7.0 beta 3 available - Page 2 -

2008-11-12T08:58:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT 0.7.0 beta 3 available
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

bogleg -

Ok drahnier, check out the build here and see if it fixes your problem.

http://sourceforge.net/project/showf...ease_id=532300

Chris

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drahnier -

It's getting better.

However, it could be perfect if the situation depicted below could be avoided (i. e. zdt would not
strip off the "。。。" when auto-filling in the traditional hanzi; if I add them anually, the
entry will be accepted).

bogleg -

Got it. I'll work on it.

Chris

drahnier -

I previously reported a problem with using handedict and adso in Beta2; well: the problem is still
present in build 07b3a (see screenshot below, which is fom 07b33a).

However, I discovered how to fix it: zdt (I guess when launched for the first time) creates a
".eclipse" folder in my home directory. Now, if the error strikes, I just have to close zdt, then
delete this folder, and restart zdt. zdt will recreate the ".eclipse" folder, but: the problem is
gone! After some runs of zdt the problem will eventually reemerge, though. Deleting the ".eclipse"
folder will fix it again.

F_Kal -

I have a strange vista(?) bug aswell. The program runs just fine and at the beginning it was
working perfectly. Then I added another category and when I decided for once to study just this
one, I realised that no matter what, It tests some other but not the one I choose... I mean I
start the session testing category X, that has 78 cards, but then it says that it has "Card:120
Left:20" and the cards are not the ones in my category...

I know my description is not of much use, but if there is something I can do to make it more
clear, I'd like to help... (I'll be offline for the next 7 days so forgive any delayed replies)

Btw the program is wonderful!

bogleg -

Yeah, this is a strange one that has been reported to me by one other person. Can you send me a
log file if this happens again? If you try with the rc5 build, you can use the Help > Report Bugs
function to gather some of the info I need to debug with.

Chris

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Chinese Tutor - ZDT: Characters sideways? -

2008-11-11T08:54:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: Characters sideways?
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Justin Goldberg -

Why are the characters sideways in ZDT, as seen in the attached screenshot?

Also to the author, I would like to be able to clear my search history in the dictionary in ZDT

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bogleg -

Hi Justin,

You'll need to change your font. (Window > Preferences > Fonts) All the fonts that begin with an @
symbol are sideways fonts.

I've added your feature request to clear your search history to my todo list. Would you be fine
with having it as a preference?

Chris

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Learning Chinese - ZDT: 0.7b2 - another error -

2008-11-10T08:55:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: 0.7b2 - another error
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drahnier -

On the category tab I used 'New" to crate a new category, then used the 'UP"-arrow to have it
moved to the top of my category list. Rapidly hitting the 'UP'-arrow to push the new category
upwards resulted in the pictured disarray of zdt. Thereafter, zdt was inresponsive.

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bogleg -

Interesting...how many categories do you have? Can you send me your backup file and i'll try to
reproduce on my system. (File > Backup Data)

Thanks

Chris

drahnier -

bogleg,

I have some 70+ categories added to the few which came with zdt.

I've send you a private email which has a zdt.backup attached to it.

Thanks for looking into this.

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Learn Mandarin online - Language Partner Request -

2008-11-09T08:54:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
Language Partner Request
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alfeng -

MY MSN: alfen8888@msn.com

Hello everyone!

I'm Chinese student currently live in Guangdong.Now I want to looking for some foreign friends.So
I need you help me!
In my spare time, i love watching movies and cartoon from Japan.

As a 18-year-old student,i am interested in games and sports, i also like heavy metal.And i have a
lot of time online before the school open.

I hope i can help u learn Chinese,and if u have any problem in Chinese language studying and
Chinese culture, i'll try my best to help u!smiling smiley

P.S.Of course my English is not good and I hope you can Chinese.(At least a little)

Contact me: MY MSN: alfen8888@msn.com

MY MSN: alfen8888@msn.com

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Chinese Speaking - Pinyin Practice -

2008-11-08T08:54:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Pinyin Practice
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AlexBrit -

Hello everyone

I'm really sorry as I realise this topic has probably been discussed ad infinitum, but I can't
find an extremely useful link I saw on here a couple of yrs ago (!)

I need the link with the web page displaying the complete pinyin chart on one page, with audio
files to listen.

Pls help.

Alex Ferraby, London.

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maximinus -

You'll be looking for a web page like this then:
http://www.quickmandarin.com/chinesepinyintable/

AlexBrit -

Maximinus, outstanding. Thanks.

If others know other similar pinyin practice pages, pls post.

Thanks.

trevelyan -

ChinesePod has a downloadable version available here. Quite a lot of extra content in the
write-ups for the various sections as well.

http://chinesepod.com/pronunciation

AlexBrit -

And thanks Trevelyan... that is a great download!

Alex.

imron -

Here's another one.

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Free Chinese Lesson - Please help with this Chinese Candy?? What is it? -

2008-11-07T09:03:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Food
Please help with this Chinese Candy?? What is it?
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HeavenlyRikku -

Ok when I was in Chinese class, the teacher gave us a Chinese candy and it was small and
rectangular. It had the color of like almost wet sand and suprisingly enough it had the texture of
sand but not quite that grainy. It was like compacted but still fell apart when it was picked up.
It came in like a foil wrapper... it was sweet... umm... I think the teacher said it was a sesame
candy but I've looked it up and haven't seen it anywhere. If it was sesame, there was no sesame
seeds evident so it might have been ground in with it, does anyone know what this candy is, and
the name of it???

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Quest -

For a candy that falls apart, 龙须糖 comes to mind.

gougou -

Makes me think of 豌豆黄. Were you in Beijing, by any chance?

studentyoung -

Quote:

It had the color of like almost wet sand and suprisingly enough it had the texture of sand but not
quite that grainy. It was like compacted but still fell apart when it was picked up. It came in
like a foil wrapper... it was sweet... umm... I think the teacher said it was a sesame candy but
I've looked it up and haven't seen it anywhere.

According to your description above, I guess you are looking for sesame crisp candy
(芝麻酥糖zhi1 ma2 su1 tang2 ), but I just have no idea what the very kind you have tried. If
you are still in China, you can easily find them in local supermarkets. Please check the link
below for some reference.
http://image.baidu.com/i?z=0&cl=2&ct...%D6%CC%C7&pn=0

Quote:

If it was sesame, there was no sesame seeds evident so it might have been ground in with it,

Yes, it might because the sesame seeds have been ground too small and wrapped in the candy, so you
might hardly find sesame seeds evident.

Thanks!

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Chinese Pinyin - Why do caucasians love English? - Page 3 -

2008-11-06T08:53:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Why do caucasians love English?
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gato -

Quote:

Anyways, I could hear their conversation clearly and not only did their conversation include the
odd English word, they would also drop whole English phrases in the middle of or at the end of
their sentences.

It's probably because they speak mostly English at work, and as a result, sometimes English
words/phrases roll off the tongue faster than Chinese ones.

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Xiao Kui -

Quote:

The likelihood that two caucasians mutually speak better Chinese than English is small, so when
you do speak in Chinese together it looks/sounds incredibly pretentious to other foreigners and
many Chinese, and just plain stupid to other Chinese.

I wholeheartedly disagree. Also the speakers could be just honoring a language pledge

If you're Caucasian then Chinese are constantly trying to corner you into speaking English, even
when your level of proficiency in their language is much more advanced then theirs in yours. You
have to take advantage of any opportunity you get to speak Chinese, and if someone is willing to
speak Chinese with you then you can't afford to be picky abt that person's race. Instead of
judging foreigners who speak English to each other, you might try imitating this habit, then you
won't be jealous of their Chinese and insist on accusing them of being pretentious. (Okay, now I'm
judging, but when we accuse others of showing off a lot of times it just sounds like we're
jealous.)

Although it's true that practice with a native speaker is the best option, any kind of practice
that is forcing you to think in and express yourself in Chinese has value!

david1978 -

Quote:

Where did that come from? Are we reading different threads?

Roddy, this attitude is far and wide. I'm surprised you haven't encountered it living in China
amongst Sinophiles. You can see it in the very title of this thread: "Why Do Caucasians Love
English?" The inference of course is that there is something wrong with "Caucasians" (what an
absurd choice of a word) "loving" English. I'm sure you would never see a post about why the
Chinese "love" Mandarin. Chinese is beautiful, and historically rich, and has so much cultural
value, and blah, blah, blah...but English is just a "tool for communication."

roddy -

I can't see anyone doing that here and I'd have to sit down and think before I could claim to have
encountered it in China. I suspect it's the kind of thing you've got to decide exists before you
can see it.

Mugi -

Sthubbar,

You may want to re-read my original post and work on your English reading comprehension before
focusing on your Chinese... The conclusions you draw regarding what is pretentious and what is not
are illogical. Having said that, it's clear that you're not here looking for answers, but rather
simply intent on venting your anger at the seemingly rude way someone dealt with what appears to
me (not having been there I can't be sure, so I'll apologize in advance if I'm totally off-base
here) your prattish and/or insulting behavior.

Quote:

I wonder what the OP would think of native speaking Chinese speaking English to native speaking
Chinese. I see a lot more of that go on frankly. Not when I'm by myself - I'm not caucasian, but
all the time when I'm with my husband (who is).

Sthubbar, what do you think? I find this equally pretentious, especially when their English is
clearly not as good as their Chinese. However, as someone else has said more clearly than I did
initially, if English is the best common language of communication between them, then I don't have
a problem with it (Northern Chinese and Taiwanese visiting HK often have to resort to English to
communicate). It's usually easy to tell from someone's body language, mannerisms and tone whether
they're being "pretentious" or not.

Sthubbar, in all honesty, which language could you and the German student most easily communicate
in? If it's English, then if I were the German guy I would feel offended at being approached in
Chinese. If Chinese is really the more effective language, then there are clearly other issues
involved between the two of you.

yonitabonita -

Quote:

I'm sure you would never see a post about why the Chinese "love" Mandarin. Chinese is beautiful,
and historically rich, and has so much cultural value, and blah, blah, blah...but English is just
a "tool for communication."

I think that's an unfair distortion of the meaning of the post.

In his own words:

Quote:

Chinese, like any other language is a tool for communication, and I find it far more pretentious
for people to advocate that the language you speak should be determined by your ethnicity

I think Imron meant that 'language' is a tool for communication. Not that 'English' is 'just' a
tool for communication. I can't say that any fair reading of his comment can lead one to conclude
that he was privileging one language over the other. In fact I'm quite baffled by the logical leap
- that is, if of course, you were referring to Imron's comment - forgive me if you were just using
his quote to illustrate something else entirely different.

Frankly, through my time living here, or anywhere else, I've seen no evidence of Chinese language
worship at the expense of English. Sure, that attitude might exist - because every sort of
attitude must exist - but I can honestly say that I've never encountered it.

y

wushijiao -

I think the spirit of the original post was something along the lines of “I have come to this
school to learn Chinese. You have come here to learn Chinese. Why don’t you want to speak
Chinese?” Perhaps some of the wording here are there could have been improved, but then again,
we all make unintentional mistakes in phraseology.

Perhaps, in order to avoid casting doubt of the pretentiousness/worthiness of other human beings,
it might be best to say up front, “do you mind if I only speak in Chinese? I know it may seem
strange, but I’m really here to learn, and I’m kind of doing a language pledge thing (explain
if need be)”. If they agree, they agree. If not, just use English, or whatever works best. No
hard feelings. Maybe we could all decrease the negative feelings towards others.

Mugi -

Quote:

I wholeheartedly disagree.

Why?

Quote:

Also the speakers could be just honoring a language pledge

This may or may not be a good language acquisition method, but it appears not to be the situation
here.

Quote:

If you're Caucasian then Chinese are constantly trying to corner you into speaking English, even
when your level of proficiency in their language is much more advanced then theirs in yours.

This is getting a bit OT, but I never had this problem (and I'm as white as they come) when I
lived in China or whenever I travel back there. But I do hear a lot of people complaining about
it. Seems to happen here in Japan too, although to a lesser degree. I think it has more to do with
the way other people see you - do you look like you'd be up for chatting in English? I'm often
told I look "serious" (so probably not very affable), which might account for why I've never had
this problem

imron -

Quote:

What irritates me is that all you guys who look down upon any Westerner who cherishes and values
his own history and language as a bigot or zealot, will endlessly admire the ethnocentricity and,
basically, cultural chauvinism and supremacism of the Chinese. To me, this is a pathetic double
standard.

How does speaking Chinese to other westerners equal looking down at people who cherish their own
values, history and language, and how does it equal endlessly admiring the Chinese? That's an
amazing leap of logic you've made there.

To get back on topic though, language is shaped and formed by the things you mention, but at the
end of the day, it's still a tool used for communicating those things and more to the people
around you. My purpose in learning Mandarin isn't so I can change my identity to somehow be more
Chinese or because I think the cultures and beliefs are somehow better than my own, rather it is
to communicate with those around me. Sometimes those around me are other westerners who, as
students of Mandarin, also like practising their Chinese. In such a situation I see nothing
pretentious or wrong with doing that.

Mugi -

Quote:

Perhaps, in order to avoid casting doubt of the pretentiousness/worthiness of other human beings,
it might be best to say up front, “do you mind if I only speak in Chinese? I know it may seem
strange, but I’m really here to learn, and I’m kind of doing a language pledge thing (explain
if need be)”. If they agree, they agree. If not, just use English, or whatever works best. No
hard feelings.

Some sound advice!

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Chinese Speaking - I need a confirmation re translation -

2008-11-05T09:00:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
I need a confirmation re translation
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Arbeitsfuhrer -

I wanted to write something in memory of my deceased father on Chinese on my back. So I have tried
to find the right translation. In my search the following symbols on simplified Chinese
纪念父亲 were translated to me as "Commemorates the father" or "In memory of father".
Nevertheless I want to write them vertically. Can somebody help is it correct to do so and if yes
then by which order should I write them not to loose the original meaning. Can I write them like
this:

纪
念
父
亲

Or I must write them in this order:

纪念 - comemoration
父 - father
亲 - own

I would also appriciate if somebody can tell me how this is prononced.

Thanks in advance good people!

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imron -

It's fine to write them vertically as you have. The pronunciations are:

纪 jì
念 niàn
父 fù
亲 qīn

Arbeitsfuhrer -

Thank you very much, I appreciate your response!

I wish you a nice day!

aimering -

well~
there're also other choices of words which might be more formal~

eg, 悼念,means "grive"
or, 忆父, (this one is somehow like Classical Chinese), also means "in memory of my father"

pick your favourite^^。

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Chinese Studies - Calling all geeks. - Page 2 -

2008-11-04T08:56:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Calling all geeks.
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Lu -

There is just no cultural equivalent in China of the American/Western geek, I think. Studies day
and night? Loves playing computer games? Uncomfortable in a bar? That description fits a really
large portion of the Chinese students. They would hardly have derogatory terms about themselves...

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Learn mandarin - So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching English? -

2008-11-03T08:59:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
So, what do they come for, if it's not for teaching English?
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Long Pan -

Interesting article from last week China Daily (June 6th), about English teachers in China.
Extract:

Critics say most teachers are dedicated, career-oriented and experienced, but the growing industry
could become disreputable unless it's standardized. And English teachers have become the subject
of hot debate on websites and blogs and among college instructors and Chinese students. "They come
to China for something else, not to teach," said Niu Qiang, a visiting professor of the English
Department at Changchun University in Jilin Province, who has written about the lack of standards
for foreign teachers. "We should rule out or scrutinize those unqualified teachers." So, what do
they come for, if it's not for teaching?

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heifeng -

Quote:

The goal, they say, is to revamp the qualification process so that foreigners aren't hired solely
because they're native English speakers.

hahah this cracks me up because I get chaised down the street by people trying to recruit
foreigners for some random English teaching jobs on a weekly basis. The funny thing is, MOST
people don't even ask if I am a native English speaker... If you look the part people are willing
to give you an English teaching job in China...saying SOME of these foreigners teaching English
are unqualified NATIVE English speakers is already being too generous...

I personally came to improve my Chinese and you can beat me to death and I still won't teach
anyone English period. I have always felt that just because I speak English doesn't mean I am
qualified to teach it, plus I really have no interest in teaching at all. Although this is talking
about English teachers being qualified, I also think it is wrong for locals and these school
operators to assume every foreigner here either teaches, is willing to teach, or is even remotely
qualified to teach English. I personally get really annoyed that I have to dodge the bullet almost
every single day while I am in China, from requests from almost all my teachers who have colleages
and bosses who have children studying English, down to the granny in my apartment building and the
stranger on the street...to top it off, it is even worse knowing that many people are only
interested in befriending you for your English ability and even a seemingly kind gesture will
eventually end in the question of teaching someone English...

As far as the

Quote:

reputations of many male foreign teachers outside of the classroom

I am sure some are just messing around with the precise girls who are going out of their way to
find a foreigner for a multitude of reasons anyway. I can only assume it's too much effort to
corrupt the remaining young, innocent Chinese girls when the others are already throwing
themselves at you...

jbiesnecker -

I was one of those unqualified foreigners without a related degree once, and to be honest I
wouldn't have hired me for the job I did, though I would like to think that I did my level best
(and it's not like the university offered any support whatsoever). I just used the time that I had
to study and then used those skills to find something better.

Obviously there needs to be a better system of vetting English teachers, but that is just one item
on a long list of better systems that need to be established here.

mr.stinky -

"growing industry could become disreputable unless"

unless? it's a well-known secret that anyone with a white face (regardless of native
language) can get a job teaching english. no offense to the qualified teachers here, but
anytime someone tells me they're teaching english in china, i immediately assume they
can't find a real job in the real world. due to no qualifications, or perhaps a degree in
comparative philosophy.

"They come to China for something else, not to teach,.....We should rule out or scrutinize
those unqualified teachers."

those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who can't teach, teach english in china.
there are qualified teachers here for various reasons, it seems the bulk of those i've met
are nothing more than backpackers who have run out of funds. rule them out, and you're
not left with much. how easy is it to lure someone here with a US$6K salary?

imron -

Quote:

how easy is it to lure someone here with a US$6K salary?

But Mr. Stinky, the answer should be obvious and is mentioned clearly in the article. People come
to "live in a rich culture with an ancient history and strong economy". Haha, ok, so I laughed out
loud when I read that too.

Senzhi -

Well ... I'm an Adult Educator graduate and I am fully qualified to teach English (no TEFL stuff
... but a real university degree). I do also have a lot of business experience.
I have lived, worked and studied extensively in Ireland, so you can assume my English to be
competitive with native speakers, whatever the heck 'native speaker' really means.

But ... I'm Belgian.

I received a good strong contract to teach in a business environment, not only teaching English
but more importantly to teach the western business culture to adult business people.

However, the Guangdong government initially refused my Z-visa application, because I was ...
simply ... Belgian, and I quote "Belgians cannot speak English".

It took us quite some "guanxi" to settle things. My employer is happy (and so am I), and has in
fact kicked some native speakers out, as they had no proper teaching qualification ... and you
could see it in the progress of the average student.

I do not consider TEFL, CELTA or Trinity etc. to be a proper teaching qualification! These courses
are simply too short, and are merely in my opinion just money-making businesses.
A proper teaching qualification can only be obtained as part of a college or university degree.

One thing I do admit (according to the article): I did come to China to have a more easier
lifestyle, to get away from the business stress I was experiencing for many years.

But the government should start to understand that in teaching English, both the words 'teaching'
and 'English' are equally important. And that not everybody from English speaking countries are
really native English speakers (e.g. L.A. in the states, where the majority is Spanish speaking).
Not everybody else outside these countries do have the same level of English as their Chinese
counterparts and can in fact speak and write English as fluent as a native (especially business
people).

In fact, schools and local governments persistently refuse people from Asian origin, even though
they are native English speakers. Hell, some don't even speak any of the Asian languages, and only
know English!
An ethnic Asian could have never set foot in China, being a university qualified teacher, only
know English as his/her native language ... and never get a teaching job here.

Food for thought. Full stop.

P.S.: any English grammar mistakes are purely typo

wushijiao -

I think people come to teach in China for various reasons. Critics often present a false choice:
you’re either here to unselfishly teach English to the masses while learning about the “5000
years” of brilliant Chinese history, or you’re here because you’re a pathetic loser who
cannot find a job in your home country, and you partake in womanizing, and excessive boozing.

I think it is a bit more complex than that. I think that there are other reasons that may not seem
as obvious. One is status. I once saw a study that said that most people would prefer to make
$30,000 a year in a society in which the per capita average is $10,000 than live in country in
which they make $50,000 a year and the per capita is $100,000. I know those numbers are off, but
the general point is that people often prefer to live in a society in which they have more
relative social status, even if it means that they are not as well financially compensated as they
could be in their home countries. I have taught with many teachers who could easily get better
paying jobs in their home countries, and who take their teaching seriously (even if they are just
mediocre teachers), and yet, they do seem to subtly relish the enhanced power and authority that
they have in China (or any developing country), partly because they wouldn’t have that same
authority in their home country.

Also, there are the type of people who come to China with some sort of idealistic goals that they
want to promote. Perhaps that is the advancement of the notion of human rights and democracy, or
the advancement of some religion. In any case, these people often project a sense of what their
ideal world is onto the, what is for them, the blank slate of their new host society. Most people
who I have met who might fall into this category have been interesting and morally-sound people,
but yet their motivations for coming to China are not merely to “teach English”.

It goes without saying that there are also tons of people who want to help people, improve their
Chinese level, have an “adventure”…etc. I think most people come to China for a combination
of reasons, not just one.

I also think it is worth pointing out that, at lest in my experience, the vast majority of the
teachers I have met were pretty serious about their teaching, and at least tried hard. Many that I
have worked with over the years have certainly improved, even if they were not fully qualified.

As far as qualifications, ideally, a person would have:

-A university degree in education or linguistics, combined with practical experience teaching ESL
-At least a few years of experience
-Be a native speaker
-Have a strong knowledge base of the various cultures that speak English
-Have a strong sense of cultural sensitivity and history of the host country
-Be at least somewhat aware of the special needs of the L2 speakers in question
-Be an experienced language learner

Clearly, there is no practical way China can accommodate all of these requirements because the
people who meet all the above criteria are pretty rare, and the price of hiring these ideal
teachers would therefore be way above the market price for teachers. There are a few hundred
million people trying to learn English in China, after all. The market is huge. Also, if you limit
it to native speakers, you miss out on some qualified “non-native speakers” (like Senzhi). If
you limit it to having a university degree, then you get some people who are accomplished
scientists or IT specialists, but are disastrous in front of a class.

Also, it’s worth mentioning that, as far as I know, most Chinese teachers (of English, math,
history, physics…etc) don’t generally have an education degree either. In other words, they
are also not necessarily qualified in the sense that they know how to teach effectively, even if
they are competent in their subjects of study.

I think it would be wise to see the standardization of qualifications in the context of China’s
overall educational environment, and in terms of the market needs, and needs of each individual
province or municipality (ie. Gansu will be different from Shanghai).

In short, I think the Chinese education system has come a long way very quickly, but the sheer
number of students combined with the rapidly changing requirements of the job market have created
a perfect storm of chaos, in which trying to regulate the “teaching English in China” field
certainly needs the government to step in and tighten regulations, but the regulations wouldn’t
be very realistic and practical.

gato -

Quote:

Also, it’s worth mentioning that, as far as I know, most Chinese teachers (of English, math,
history, physics…etc) don’t generally have an education degree either. In other words, they
are also not necessarily qualified in the sense that they know how to teach effectively, even if
they are competent in their subjects of study.

A solid understanding of the field that's being taught, I think, should come first, and then a
personality amenable to teaching, and lastly teaching skills. If a person has the first two, he or
she can learn the teaching skills on the job. Teaching is something mostly learned by doing
instead of from books.

Slightly off-topic: compare the math performance of Chinese students with Americans who are mostly
taught by math teachers who have education degrees but do not have a degree in either math or a
math-based field. It was relatively for China to find those math and science teachers since it
used be that 70% or more of its college students studied in a technical field, whereas in the US,
most undergraduates major in the liberal arts and a very large percentage get a B.A. in education.

wushijiao -

Quote:

A solid understanding of the field that's being taught, I think, should come first, and then a
personality amenable to teaching, and lastly teaching skills. If a person has the first two, he or
she can learn the teaching skills on the job. Teaching is something mostly learned by doing
instead of from books.

Agreed. It’s easier to teach someone how to teach than it is to teach a person to a high degree
of competence, especially in fields like math or physics, but even in the humanities. But Chinese
students also do a ton more homework than their American counterparts.

xianu -

I know there are a lot of foreigners in China teaching English, but it is truly iunfair to say
"they all" are doing it just because they can't find a job elsewhere in the "real world."

I kind of resent Mr. Stinky assuming that "those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who
can't teach, teach english in china."

Agreed: there are unqualified teachers all over the place, and even crappy qualified teachers. (do
you remember your K-12 education? or even your college education?) The fact that you The idea that
you only are a native speaker of a language does NOT make you a decent teacher of the language.
That you are "qualified" teacher of the language or the subject does not make you a good teacher
of the subject. To say that one teaches because s/he lacks the skills to do the "real thing" well
enough to make it legitimately is ludicrous.

I know many people who teach English in China and other countries for real reasons (not because
they can't find something else), more often, the reason being that they want an international
living experience and need to find a way to fund it. I have had a bunch of students come to me and
ask abotu teaching in China or Taiwan, asking about how to get a job, what they need to qualify
for the jobs, and once they get them, what they need to do to prepare themselves. Most of these
graduating students are sincere in learning about teaching methodologies and about how to make
their classes good, and worthwhile for their students. Most are scared of their new
responsibilities and are actively reading and discussing second language acquisition theories.
Teaching is much more than just certificates, credentials, etc, and to reduce it merely to that is
shameful.

(and yes, I am a teacher, though never of English).

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Chinese Mandarin - The basics of the Chinese Language and choosing the right learning technique -

2008-11-02T08:54:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
The basics of the Chinese Language and choosing the right learning technique
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j_spencer -

I wanted to get some of the fundamentals of the Chinese Language before I actually started
learning it. This is what I have as the basis of my learning. In my second post I'd like to ask
some questions that I have, as the post is too long to for both!

--------------------------

Speech sounds

A syllable may consist of a single vowel, compound vowel (A combination of two or more words that
function as a single unit of meaning, such as barefoot), or a vowel preceded by a consonant. A
compound vowel may consist of two vowels, which is treated as one unit.

Consonants are called initials and vowels are called finals. See book for pronunciation of
initials and consonants.

Tones

There are 4 different tones, 5 if you include the neutral tone. Different tones = different words.
For example ma with the first tone means Mum but ma with the third tone means horse. The tone is
indicated above the vowel or main vowel if it is a compound vowel. The main vowel is the one that
comes earliest in this list: a, o, e, u, I, u.

• The first tone (symbol = -) is pitched high at 5 and remains at that pitch.
• The second tone (symbol = ’) is a high, rising tone. Pitch at 3 and raise quickly to 5.
• The third tone (symbol = v) is a falling and rising tone. Start below 3 and drop it near the
bottom and then raise it to about 2.5.
• The fourth tone (symbol = ‘) is a falling tone. Start at 5 and drop all the way to the
bottom.

Neutral tones are used in the following cases:

(a) Grammar words such as le and de.
(b) The second syllable in some compound words.
(c) The second syllable which is a repetition of the first one: for example, mama.
(d) The measure word ge when it is not emphasised: for example, san ge yue.

Tones change depending on the adjacent tones and meaning groups. Some of the basic rules of tone
change are as follows:

(a) When a third tone is followed by another third tone and they are in one meaning group, the
first one changes to the second tone. For example, ni hao (both with v), changes to ni (’) hao
(v).
(b) When three third tones occur one after the other in the same meaning group, the second one
changes to the second tone.
(c) In some compound words, although the second syllable, which is a third tone when used
separately, has become neutral, it still carries enough weight to change the preceding third tone
to the second tone.
(d) The first third tone remains unchanged if (a) the second third tone belongs to the next
meaning group, and (b) if a third tone is followed by a neutral tone and then followed by a third
tone.
(e) When the negation word bu, which has the fourth tone, is followed by another fourth tone, bu
changes to the second tone.
(f) When the number word yi (one) is used in isolation or follows other syllables, it has the
first tone; but when it precedes first, second and third tones, yi usually changes to fourth tone,
except when it also precedes fourth tones, where it changes to second tone.

Word order

Chinese characters are called zi. A zi is a character which consists of one syllable. Some zi have
meanings on their own (e.g. wo(3) means I/me) and others have to be used with others to form
meaningful expressions (e.g. de does not meaning anything on its own, but it can be used to form
other words such as wo(3)de, meaning my/mine). The former are words whilst the latter are called
particles or grammar words.

English note: A noun is a:

person: man, woman, teacher, John, Mary
place: home, office, town, countryside, America
thing: table, car, banana, money, music, love, dog, monkey
idea: Freedom
Verbs are sometimes described as "action words". This is partly true. For example, words like run,
fight, bring, read, do and work all convey action.
But some verbs do not give the idea of action; they give the idea of existence, of state, of
"being". For example, verbs like be, exist, seem, live, soak, stand and belong all convey state.
A verb always has a subject. (In the sentence "John speaks English", John is the subject and
speaks is the verb.) In simple terms, therefore, we can say that verbs are words that tell us what
a subject does or is; they describe:
action (Ram plays football.)
state (Anthony seems kind.)

When asking a question in English, the question word comes first (e.g. where are you going?). In
Chinese, you use the normal word order; the question word comes last (e.g. you are going where?).
In English we also put the most important information at the end of sentences (e.g. it is very
expensive to telephone China). In Chinese, the important information or the topic of a sentence
comes first (e.g. to telephone China very expensive). Finally, in English, time phrases occur at
the end of a sentence (e.g. I’ll finish my work at 6 o’clock). In Chinese, time phases always
occur before the verb. Thus you say ‘I 6 0’clock finish work.’

Grammar

(a) nouns in Chinese are neither singular nor plural. Thus you say ‘one book’ and ‘three
book’.
(b) Because of (a), verbs (i.e. doing words) have only one form. Thus you say ‘I be Chinese’
and ‘You be British’, ‘I go China’ and ‘He go China’, etc.
(c) Verbs do not indicate past, present or future. Tenses are indicated by extra grammar words (or
‘particles’), time phases or context. Thus you say ‘I go + grammar word + library’, ‘I
yesterday go + grammar word + library’, ‘ I tomorrow go library’, etc.
(d) Prepositions such as “at’, ‘in’, ‘on’ are not used before time phrases. Thus you
say ‘My mother Tuesday arrive’.
(e) The largest unit, be it time or place, always comes first. Thus you say ‘He January the 11th
arrive’, ‘We from China Beijing come’.
(f) There is something called the measure word to be used between a number and a noun. Different
measure words are used for different nouns. Thus you say two + ben + book, but two + ge + people.
Chinese measure words indicate the unit of measurement of some object just as their English
counterparts in phrases like "three cups of water" or "a pinch of salt". However, unlike English,
where many objects can be used without specifying the unit, (e.g. "three persons" or "four
pencils"), Chinese objects always require a measure word when one or more instances are involved.
When you have to specify a certain number of something, you combine the number itself with a
measure word, followed by the noun.

Radicals

The basis of the traditional Chinese writing system is 214 elements often referred to as radicals.
Radicals are the semantic root of Chinese characters, and give an indication as to the meaning of
a character.

Radicals can also give phonetic information. For example, this radical (马) contains the word ma.
Different tones however give a different meaning of this radical. For example ma1 means mother. In
characters, this is represented by this semantic radical (女 – the female radical). To write
mother therefore you write 女马. You do not necessarily need more than one radical for a
phonetic to be present. For example 马 on its own is ma3, meaning horse.

A radical can have both a phonetic and semantic component, but not when used in the same
character. For example this character (皮) is pi2, meaning leather. It indicates the notion of
skin and can be the semantic for 皲, jun1, meaning skin chaps (skin is irritated, splits, becomes
rough or sore). Also 皱, zhou4, meaning wrinkled. It can also have phonetic meaning. For example
疲, pi2, tired, and 披, pi1, wrap around.

Radicals sometimes can give neither the semantic or phonetic meaning. For example (外), wai4,
meaning outer/outside, is formed of this radical (夕), xi1, meaning sunset, and this radical
(卜), bu3, meaning divination. Radicals can simply be part of characters without giving a
semantic or phonetic meaning.

Radicals can be used both independently (most radicals have a meaning when used in isolation), or
as part of more complex characters. There is a change in shape and stroke count that occurs in
some radicals when used as a component to form more complex characters.

Despite being familiar with a relevant radical and character, when both are combined, chances are
you will not understand the new character. The components may give you hints, though this is not
enough; you need to memorise each character individually to successfully read and write in
Chinese. Similarly, there is no way of knowing whether a radical is giving the phonetic or
semantic, it comes from practice and familiarising yourself with the characters.

Individual characters themselves – each of which in general represents a single syllable of the
spoken language – may occur in combination with other characters to denote Chinese words and
expressions of two or more syllables.

I also have a section on pronunciation, which I scanned from one of my Chinese learners books.

------------------

I have some questions below that I would greatly appreciate any response to!

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j_spencer -

Do you think this provides an adequate grounding for me to now go on and start learning the
language? Or would you recommend I familiarise myself with other concepts of Mandarin before
proceeding?

-----------------------------

How do you think I should proceed with learning. I think I have two options:

1) Follow one of my books and start learning Chinese conversations. I.e. learning the pinyin. In
this book characters are also provided. So I can learn pinyin and speaking as well as characters.

Benefits: all round learning, i.e. pinyin, reading, writing and speaking

Disadvantages: not actually learning one discipline intensively

2) Focus specifically on the characters. In other words acquire a book with a list of radicals and
characters and begin learning them off by heart as well as the meaning pronunciation.

Benefits: Learn characters faster; learn to read and write faster in the proper form as opposed to
pinyin

Disadvantages: Don't learn to speak as quickly; might not get a grasp of the grammar as quickly

In the second option, learning characters and radicals, would you reccomend doing it from a
dictionary, or a book that lists and explains the chacters and radicals? Also, in these books and
dictionaries, how do they account for the fact that some radicals are different when used in
isolation than when used with another character? Will they have a little note next to the full
radical, saying what it looks like when used in combination with another character? Or will a
radical, used when in combination, be in a different part of the list to the same radical when it
is used in isolation? Similarly, in lists of radicals and characters, will it just show you what
each individual character or radical stands for? Or will it list the words that are formed when
characters and radicals are combined?

Or should I merge the two? Learning the pinyin and characters of conversations, and at the same
time slowly work my way through the characters and radicals?

Finally, can someone please recommend a good English-Chinese dictionary? I'm looking for the
biggest and best one! Thanks a lot. I realise there is a lot there to work through but I'd hugely
appreciate any help on the matter!

trien27 -

just learn the language already. Most of what's in English doesn't make sense either. People still
take time to learn it. Grammar is grammar. It's good that you do a lot of research. Now just learn
the language. You already know the basics. There's no such thing as a right or wrong learning
technique. You're either willing to learn or not.

imron -

Regarding which vowel to place the tone on, you should follow this rule:

Quote:

The rules for determining on which vowel the tone mark appears are as follows:

1. If there is more than one vowel and the first vowel is i, u, or ü, then the tone mark appears
on the second vowel.
2. In all other cases, the tone mark appears on the first vowel

(y and w are not considered vowels for these rules.)

If you follow the order you listed, then you'll get it wrong for some syllables. For example, in
correct pinyin the tone mark appears over the i in duī, but over the u in diū. By following the
rule you gave, it would appear over the u in both syllables, which is incorrect.

Other advice I would give is not to think of a syllable as 'sound' + 'tone'. Try to recognise them
as whole units that are not separate from each other. This simplifies things, because you don't
have to 'remember' the tones because this information is being encoded in the syllable as you
memorise them. I would also recommend spending time at the beginning really working on your
pronunciation, making sure that you can mostly distinguish and pronounce the different tones and
syllables. If you give yourself a good grounding in this respect, it will make things much easier
later on.

As for dictionaries, Plecodict seems to be the general favourite around here.

Also, you should try searching the forums for some of the topics you've listed. There are already
many posts detailing different people's opinions of how best to approach learning Chinese, from
several different aspects (pronunciation, reading, writing, listening etc).

Finally, I would add that while knowing all of the theory you've listed is good, I wouldn't get
too hung up on it in the beginning because you don't have the practical knowledge to associate it
with. Many of the things you listed aren't hard and fast rules, and if you try to apply what you
are learning to these rules, you might run into occasional conflicts. Now I would recommend just
getting stuck into learning. Most of the things you've listed will become obvious/apparent once
you've been learning for a while.

OneEye -

Agreed, just start learning. Some of these concept won't make sense until you learn the language.

I've tried several courses out there (Pimsleur, FSI Standard Chinese, Practical Chinese Reader,
China Panorama, and more), and my favorite course is China Panorama. It's good to do some of the
FSI lessons (P&R module, and maybe Unit 1), but after that the course got boring and taught things
that I didn't find useful ("I work in the military attache's office," for example). China Panorama
is more relevant and not nearly as boring, plus it has the added benefit of being able to see the
language being used (it's a video course).

I use the videos for listening/understanding, and I use the MP3 CD that comes with it for
chorusing and learning to speak, and I put all the characters into Supermemo for learning to read.
I've written a good deal about the method I'm using on my blog, so I won't write an epic-length
post here, but give it a read. It's working very well for me and my native Mandarin-speaking
co-workers tell me my pronunciation is very good.

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HSK - "Check In" and "Check Out" - Page 2 -

2008-11-01T10:03:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
"Check In" and "Check Out"
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adrianlondon -

Also, there's probably not many people unaware that you need to tell.

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Quest -

Quote:

You have a bright future ahead as a reasonable receptionist.

Wish I could be one to realize your prevision.

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Learning Chinese - time -

2008-10-31T10:06:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
time
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rezaf -

时间和时候有什么区别？请写一些例子。

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againstwind -

Simply speaking, 时间 is an interval separating two points on this continuum, 时候 is a
particular interval, or rather a point, of time.

e,g,
A：你每天都学习汉语吗？
B：差不多每天都学习。
A：你每天学习多少时间？
B：不一定。工作不太忙的时候，学习的时间就多一些。
A：那么，你什么时候学习呢？
B：什么时候学习都可以呀。比如，坐车的时候可以听录音，跟中国人谈话的
时候可以练习说汉语，下班以后，可以长时间地学习。
A：你可真会利用时间学习啊。你有空的时候，请多帮助我吧。
B：行，没问题。今天晚上我有时间，你来我这儿吧。

You see, you can use measure words or adjectives to modify 时间, such as 一段时间,
一年时间, 半个月的时间, 很长时间, 多少时间 and so on. It must be a duration with
a beginning and an end. But 时候 is a particular point of time, such as 什么时候, 这时候,
那时候, ……的时候 and so on.

Besides, 时间 can also express a particular moment.
e.g.
开车的时间到了。
时间到了，下课吧。

时间 is also used as a term.
e.g.
北京时间比格林尼治时间早8小时。
时间和空间是两个哲学概念。

rezaf -

thanks. a very good explanation. (i don't know wether this sentence is correct in english or not)
how can i say"meanwhile i was eating he was drinking tea" ?

hijhp -

meanwhile i was eating he was drinking tea.
当我吃饭的时候，他在喝茶

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Learn Chinese - Translation of a "jedi code" -

2008-10-30T09:56:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Translation of a "jedi code"
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lauli -

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum (I just started taking chinese classes at university). And right of the
start I have a translation question.
I would like to translate the following quote from the Star Wars books (I'm not sure if they have
been translated into chinese, so maybe there is an official translation), and use it as a tattoo
later on

"Peace over anger. Honor over hate. Strength over fear."

I looked up the words in the dictionary, but I'm honestly unable to put them together as a
sentence Would be great if someone could help me out ... and thanks in advance!

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againstwind -

Peace over anger. Honor over hate. Strength over fear
平静战胜愤怒。尊敬战胜仇恨。力量战胜恐惧。

This is a sort of version.

Are you sure you want to use it as a tattoo？I just feel... it...too many characters.
Anyway, may the Force be with you.

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Pnyin - korean students -

2008-10-29T10:03:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
korean students
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rezaf -

i have been studying chinese in shanghai for a month and the reason that i write this is because i
am very angry . all of my classmates are koreans and i have never seen such lazy and uninterested
students in my life. they hardly attend half of the classes. never do their homework and just
speak in korean with each other when the teacher is teaching. i study for 5 hours a day and now i
can read and write 430 words but i doubt that my some of my classmates know more than 30
words(including the numbers and wo ni ...) and after 1 month they can not pronounce zh, ch, sh, z,
c . they have slowed down the class and made it difficult for me to learn in the class because the
teachers must spend a lot of time in teaching the very basic words and grammer everyday. there was
a good teacher who tried to make the environment creative but korean students protested against
this teacher and didnt come to her class this week and wanted the university to give them back the
money for this class. as a result the 校长 came to our class today and told her that they are
going to change her next week. i just want to know if in all the universities the situation isthe
same and does anyone have any suggestion what i should do in such a lazy class?

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heifeng -

Quote:

month they can not pronounce zh, ch, sh, z, c

The bad news is this will never change.

SOME (not all) Korean students are in China b/c they are not 'top-tier' students, thus came to
China for school.

OTHER Korean students are really hard working b/c they need an 8 or 10 on the HSK. Find those
students. Even though they are a bit too test obsessed, you'll be happier.

I don't have too many quelms w/the Korean students here in BJ, but on occasion have been annoyed
when in a class of 40 students they are collectively creating a hum of Korean speaking during
class and only myself and my uzbekistanian classmate and the teacher is speaking Chinese. But
occasionally there will be a Korean student 'not in with the pack'. Maybe they are outcasts for
some reason, maybe they just got back from their military training and find others too immature
now...but some decent ones are around.

Don't get too disheartened. Learn some free Korean, and let them take you out for dinner at least
once and then never reciprocate...turn lemons into lemonaide or start planning subtle ways to get
revenge just to give your days a beam of sunlight.

adrianlondon -

Ask to move classes. Maybe all your classmates know each other and are just there for something to
do; with no real goal.

The three Koreans in my class were different. The two girls (very different ages) worked really
hard while the young guy did nothing for the first month or so. Then something happened and ...
wow, he worked really hard and suddenly did so well. But yes, their pronunciation is often wrong
but that's just because of the Korean language. Brits find it hard to differentiate between "x"
and "sh" for example, but I'm still understood

Shadowdh -

Man if they changed the teacher as the students were too selfish and lazy to keep up then complain
right back and comment on the fact that the other students are just lazy and dont work...

wushijiao -

One of my good friends in Shanghai is a Korean guy getting his PhD at Fudan, and what he said as
far as Korean students is basically: there are a small percentage of Korean students who are from
good/elite Korean universities who are studying abroad in China. These people. in general, take
studying very seriously. I know a few Koreans who have amazing Putonghua, to the point where I
wasn't 100% sure if they were native speakers.

Then, according to my friend, there is a whole different wave of Koreans who have come to China
because, in many cases, they couldn't get into college at all back home. Studying in China is way
cheaper than in Korea, so their parents let them. To some degree, China is like their "spring
break" party place.

Hero Doug -

It sounds like you're just going to end up waisting your money and time. Can you switch classes or
get a refund?

I think you'd be better off with a tutor and self-study then the environment you're in (not sure
how possible that is). And the thing is; with Chinese universities (at least the one's I've seen)
your whole class takes an entire subject, so there's no chance of having them for just a bad class
once a week.

Possibly one of the best solutions (at the risk of being the class outcast) is to monopolize the
teacher's attention. I don't know what the class structure is like but when a question is asked
always give an answer with follow up question and try to make the teacher go off topic.

rezaf -

without a visa i can not stay in china. so studying with a tutor is not a choice.but does anyone
know if it's possible to change the university in the middle of the semester?

gato -

What school are you at?

There should be at least a policy that students shouldn't have private chats during class, so the
students who don't care to learn don't end up disrupting those who do. If those are noisy during
class, complain to the teachers and the school administrators. Go as high up the leadership ladder
as you can. The most powerful person in a school is its Party secretary, if you didn't already
know (though I doubt he/she would be accessible). If they won't enforce their own rules, tell them
you want your money back. Organize with other students who feel the same way and file your
complaint together. 团结就是力量。加油！

rezaf -

It seems that the korean mafia is stronger than the policies , the reason that i chose this school
was that there are only 10 to 20 students in each class and the teachers are relatively good but
now i understand that i made a mistake.

gato -

That's too bad. Try complaining to the school president anyway. Maybe something can be done.

Or you can hang out with jujubeans119 who posted below about East China Normal University
(华东师范大学). It's basically Shanghai's counterpart to Beijing Normal University and
sounds pretty good.
http://www. /showth...947#post102947
East china normal uni in shanghai.

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HSK Exam - ZDT - Request For Help - No Characters appearing -

2008-10-28T09:55:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT - Request For Help - No Characters appearing
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albaker -

I have installed the ZDT flash card program.

The application appears to start OK.

BUT

When I try to use the flash cards none of the chines characters will appeear, just a square box.

In the Dictionary the Charaters do not appear either, just boxes, the rest of the information
display OK.

Version ... 0.6.1

O/S......... Windows XP

Install....... Selected the "setup-full" dowload.

NOTE........ MS Office is not on this box

ANY help or advice greatly appreciatted !

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albaker -

whew - I fianlly got it to work.

Installed "Asian Languages" support on XP, the rebooted, the under control panel selected
additionl lanuage of "mandarin PRC".

Hmm did everbody else just know to do this ?? - just a thoght, one might want to add it to the
install instructions !

Also - if i attempted to use the HELP function the program would lock up with a JAVA error.

I had to go under the Preferences area and select for help to be displayed in and "External
Browser".

Hope my pain help someone else.

chinesetools -

Do you have any Chinese fonts installed?

drahnier -

Did you install Asian character support in Regional and Language Settings?

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Chinese Mandarin - Language Pledges - Page 2 -

2008-10-27T10:03:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
Language Pledges
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

venture160 -

I've done a language pledge as well with CET Harbin. I thought it worked VERY well, but I did it
for 12 months straight and afterwards it took about 2-3 months to get my english back up to speed,
and even longer to fix my writing skills. But it helped to improve my spoken chinese, and we
avoided the pitfall of only speaking to Americans in Chinese by having Chinese roommates. Also, it
was a great way to avoid the english langauge tutoring, just tell them if you speak english you
get sent back to the states.

For the past three months I have been in the states taking classes here, and besides my classes, I
have been under a self imposed language pledge. I have chinese roommates, and when i go between
classes its nothing but radio shows I have downloaded onto my mp3 player. 80% of the news I read
was in Chinese. I am on spring break taking some time off from this, but I"ll prob return to this
mode in a few weeks.

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crow610 -

So those of you who are on this "pledge", do you also think in Chinese?

venture160 -

I did thinking, dreaming and counting in Chinese.

kdavid -

Someone a few posts back mentioned being approached by other non-native Chinese speakers. I've
found a good remedy for this problem:

Whenever I'm approached by someone wanting to practice their English in the streets, in a
restaurant, etc., I just tell them I'm Czech and can't speak English (in Chinese). If they
continue to try and speak English, I just make a confused face and walk away. It's actually quite
entertaining.

xianu -

I am surprised by how adamant some of you are about refusing to speak English, and coming up with
little background scenarios for dealing with it. I didn't mind meeting and speaking English with
people, Chinese or foreign. I made some great friends from many different places, and I like to
think I helped a lot of frustrated travelers gain an appreciation for China (rather than be all
bitter about it).Perhaps because I am ethnically Chinese (ABC) I never had an issue with people
randomly trying to practice English with me, or with non-Chinese randomly singling me out to help
them communicate/translate. I have always wondered how my ability to "pass" affected my
experience. Any other ABC's, for whom Mandarin was definitely a foreign language care to comment
on this?

Meng Lelan -

I did what kdavid did, tell them that I couldn't speak English and act confused if they kept on
trying to speak English to me. This worked because I would tell them it is because I have a severe
hearing impairment (which is true, I have to wear hearing aids to hear). You do have to be very
strict with yourself if you want to self-impose a language pledge and you want to improve your
Chinese. Otherwise those pseudo "teach-me-English" friendships (heifeng put this into words very
well) will drag down your Chinese level very very quickly. Those of us who are in China to learn
Chinese well will self-impose the pledge (maybe this comprises one percent of all the foreigners
who come to China). Those of us who are in China to not learn Chinese well are going to keep on
speaking English to the locals and the foreigners (this would maybe comprise the other 99% of
foreigners who come to China).

xianu -

I always found that friendships with these "teach-me-english" types, if they actually were with
likable people, turned into great language exchanges, and I learned a lot of vocabulary and
especially the more colloquial verbage, plus lots of culture from them. Partly because they had
attained a certain level of english proficiency, and were obviously interested in American or
Western culture, there were things that we could talk about that would improve both my Chinese and
their English. Though of course, you have to weed out the puds from the nice folks. And that's
when making up stories about your past can be a fun and entertaining way to live.

Stefani -

Well, I was much younger then, but I had a language pledge to speak English as much as possible. I
had learned English in Indonesia, but my expressive skills were lacking. A friend who lived with
other Indonesians said that it took her 3 months before she was comfortable speaking & writing
English, and she was very smart.

I did not want it to take that long, so I forced myself to speak English as much as possible and
asking other Indonesian friends to do the same. As a result, it took me a month before I was
comfortable speaking, and started dreaming in English. Like any languages, the more time you spend
in a particular language the better your skills will be in that particular language.

It was difficult, but it worked very well, but one's language skills have to be quite high already
(I don't think it will work well with beginners, my English was probably intermediate / upper
intermediate at that time, especially for the receptive - reading and listening - portion).

Long Pan -

This article from China Daily, is about the Chinese program organised in Beijing by Princeton
University which has a language pledge; Students “must pledge to speak no other language than
Chinese for the duration of the 8 weeks to two semester program, at risk of being expelled”.
Does not say if they can read English or not. Quite impressive !

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Chinese language - Summer Study at BNU -

2008-10-26T09:55:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Summer Study at BNU
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Bastonata -

Hello -
Im going to Beijing this summer, and would like to hear about anyones experiences at either BNU or
BFSU. I've lived in China before (went to CNU) so I know what to expect as far as living
accomodations go and the like. Ive read everyone's posts about these schools, but I still want
some straight personal opinions instead of just information on how to apply.
As far as what im looking for, I dont care about Wudaokou, bars and stuff. I just want quality
teachers and a good program. Thanks in advance, and this forum is the best.

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derekws -

Hi Bastonata -

Some years ago I spent half a summer at BFSU (Beiwai) through an American study abroad program.
Now, since I wasn't directly enrolled, I can't speak to the exact experience you're wondering
about. Nonetheless, I *believe* the professors I had were largely permanent Beiwai profs. They ran
a tight ship, I'd say. Class was rigorous and time was efficiently used.

In my weeks there I met quite a few directly enrolled (yearlong or BA) students, and they seemed
pretty positive about the place. The one guy I remember in particular, a BA student, seemed to be
working pretty hard, to the point that he was complaining of finger cramps from practicing
characters. (I know my posting a remark like that is doubly impressionistic, but indulge me.)
Based on those observations, it's a place I've thought about attending myself.

I know this isn't much, but I thought I'd chime in, especially since I don't think Beiwai gets
much discussion here. Hopefully others will see your post and comment. You might also poke around
with the search function, see if you can't find more about these summer programs.

best

Bastonata -

thanks derekws. I'm looking into them as we speak. I'll keep that in mind.

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